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Post by Corey on Dec 15, 2009 18:54:10 GMT -5
I am going to cut the horns off my chaos army and make them blood angels. Drop pod based, good idea? They specialize in assult so drop pods would work perfect for attacking from the beginning of the game.
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Post by sean on Dec 15, 2009 19:24:42 GMT -5
well not really since you cant assault on te turn the drop pod lands. Also since bloodangels have their own seperate codex when you read that you find that they dont drop half of their drop pods on turn one.
Not saying they cant make a drop pod army. Just may take some more thinking and certainly not for the reasons you pointed out.
Also this post probably should be in the 40k section not the 40k league section..... just for future reference. ;D
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Post by Corey on Dec 15, 2009 19:34:09 GMT -5
Oh, my bad, I clicked on the wrong area It wouldn't be ALL drop pods, I would just use pods to start assulting quickly from the start of the game so my opponent doesn't have a chance to stratagize.
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Post by sean on Dec 15, 2009 19:58:30 GMT -5
And like I said the pods in a blood angel army dont arrive until you roll for them from reserves. So starting turn 2 you get them on a 4+ which means youd get about half. And they wouldnt get to assault anything until turn 3, so that not really that early in the game.
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Post by Corey on Dec 15, 2009 20:43:06 GMT -5
True, but I usually don't get into any heavy asulting as soon as I'd like. I guess it can help depending on how you look at it. One question though, If you drop a drop pod on something can that inflict damge (this may be an noob question)?
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Post by sean on Dec 15, 2009 21:19:43 GMT -5
no just like any deepstriking you cant choose to land on something. Most times if this happens you have to roll on the mishaps table to see what bad things happen to your deepstriking units. Most drop pod rules have special rules that avoid this, cant remember if blood angels do or not.
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Post by Corey on Dec 15, 2009 21:29:38 GMT -5
I'm not really a noob, but not really informed on drop pods. Don't drop pods use templates though?
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Post by dante on Dec 15, 2009 22:01:31 GMT -5
Hey Corey, I've played Blood Angels for a little while and read alot about them and know a bunch of players who are good with them so i know what can make or break the blood angels army composition. 5 easy blood angel musts 1: do not use blood angel drop pods, DON'T they are 50 points (15 points more than space marine) and without the drop pod assault rule they are wastes of points. 2: MECH! yeah, typically space marine mech, BUT blood angels do it better Use 5 man assault squads with power fists, take away their jump packs for FREE rhino's. That go fast on 4+ 3: Furioso Dreads are where its at! Use 3, trust me, they are good on defense as well as offense, make them death company and have them run after the Chaplains Rhino 4: Chaplains are the most important, always take at least 1 before anything! Using him in combo with the death company makes them stupid good, also with the cheap rhino assault squads, you will have lots! 5: No Land raiders, why? They aren't blood angely and you will sink too many points, every troop choice in Blood angels is about 20% more expensive than a space marine unit, why i have no clue so a land raider will kill you in points. The most effective strategy for blood angels is MSU (multiple-small-units) When you bring 4 rhino's to the table, they don't need to get out, Assault squads are troop, just hunker down and let your heavy hitters, (Chaplain Death company, dreads, Baal preds, land speeders, vindicator) do their job, the beauty of 165 point units in a tank! Lastly, use a named character, Blood Angels are a fluffy army and need either Lord Dante or Mehpiston to be competitive, i recommend Mehpiston, he is much better... I hope i helped in any way, if you heart was really set on a drop pod army just play Marines and paint them blood angels, because in truth that is 100% more effective and cheaper! OF coarse you can interpret this anyway you want, just saying what has worked for me and others in the past, have fun my vampire Friend!
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Post by Corey on Dec 16, 2009 6:14:43 GMT -5
Thanks, I wonder if it would be better to convert my chaos into ultra marines if the blood angel points are so expensive.
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Post by sean on Dec 16, 2009 8:52:56 GMT -5
Well thats hard to say. The blood angels codex right now is free you can find it on gw's website.
There are also rumors that they may get a new codex at sometime in the spring or summer of this coming year. If this happens they are likly to change and get a lot better, and have some of their rules updated to be on par with the other new marine codexes.
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Post by bob on Dec 16, 2009 10:21:42 GMT -5
I highly recommend you read the Deep Strike rules section...it's near the back of the rules, in the section about game missions and objectives.
Basically, any of your units that are in their dedicated droppod transport (read the dedicated transport rules too) start the game in reserve (the reserve rules would also be worth reading). Starting on turn 2, at the start of your turn you'd roll a d6 for each unit in reserve. On a 4+ they show up. Those that don't show up you roll for on turn 3, when they come in on a 3+, etc.
When your droppodding units arrive from reserve, you place the droppod anywhere on the table. Note that you can never place a unit within 1" of an enemy unit unless you're assaulting, so you can't land intentionally on someone. (I think droppods should have been done differently, where if they land on an enemy unit it's treated as tank shock, with a seperate 'mishap' table with results like stuck! - unit inside can not get out; jammed - unit inside can't get out this turn; pinned, etc...sorry to ramble!) You then roll scatter die and 2d6 and that's the direction and distance the droppod deviates from where you'd wanted him to land. If this location would result in him landing within 1" of an enemy or in impassable terrain, you reduce the scattered distance until he's no longer on the enemy. The unit inside then must get out (disembarking from open-top vehicle) and are treated as having deep-striked that turn: they can not move, nor assault, but can fire.
That's how your blood angel drop pods work. "Normal" space marine drop pods are a little bit better:
You count up how many drop pods you have in your army. Half of them MUST arrive via deep strike on turn 1. Yes, turn 1. This is incredibly potent, as you can drop right on top of the enemy and do mean things to him right away. The other half of the drop pods go in reserve and work as above.
Now as for assaulty units drop-poding, consider this: they must get out of the drop pod on your turn, then can not move or assault.....so they're stuck standing around the thing with a giant "shoot me" sign on them. The chances of them surviving to be able to assault on your next turn is pretty slim. Yes, if your reserve rolls are lucky enough and you get enough out that the enemy can't deal with them all you might get in to the fight you want, but not likely. Consider also that they have to remove their jumppacks to get in the drop pod, so now that they've arrived from orbit they have to run on foot and try to catch the enemy that probably doesn't want to be caught!
Combine all that with the extra cost of the blood angel drop pod, and I think you'll see that they're not an effective vehicle for assault blood angels. I can see maybe taking a dread in one for a late game drop in to take advantage of whatever the situation is, but for a mechanism of delivering the bulk of your troops, I think it would put you at a severe disadvantage.
Here's what I'd recommend: make up your own space marine chapter, and use the regular space marine codex. When the rumored Blood Angels book comes out, you can review it and see if you want to use it, and your own space marine chapter might have realized they're a second founding chapter based on the blood angels?
We have a number of really experienced marine players in the group, when you start trying to form lists I recommend you post them and listen to the feedback folks will give: they're not trying to bash you or your ideas, but trying to help you learn from their experiences.
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Post by sean on Dec 16, 2009 15:17:16 GMT -5
I agree with bob here, a lot of your questions are simple things that the rule bok or codex will answer for you quite quickly.
I dont think that drop pods are really a good choice for an assault based army. i think they are deadly for a close range shooty army, thats what I use them extensively for.
I didnt even know that the pods cost more in the blood angel book, but with that information i would say that its not a great idea to make that kind of list with that codex right now.
Now who knows how that dynamic will change with a new codex, or when exactly that codex will come out.
In the mean time since you have mentioned that you dont want to spend too much money, and drop pods are one of the most expensive items in the game(on a point to $ ratio) then I suggest you get familiar with the blood angel codex(because its free) and using the things you already have and maybe proxying with bobby and mikey some of the things you dont have. If you already have the space marine codex as well you can test similar list from both books to see what works better for you.
Codex space marines is one of the best and most basic out there. You cant go wrong with it just playing a very basic list with just tactical squads and an Hq. That makes it very ideal as a learning option.
I think a part of the trouble youve been having is that youre switching armies too often without really delving into how the game works. No army is that much better than the others that it will simply win the game for you. So learning the rules and getting familiar with your army and play style are all important steps to take as you will start to become a better player.
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Post by Corey on Dec 16, 2009 16:56:23 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help guys, I don't personally own a rule book. I just borrow mike and bobby's, but I' google this stuff. And I'm not really switching, I still play tau. I'm converting my chaos space marines because I don't think chaos has enough of a selection of units.
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Post by gretchinmike on Dec 16, 2009 17:49:06 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help guys, I don't personally own a codex. I just borrow mike and bobby's, but I' google this stuff. And I'm not really switching, I still play tau. I'm converting my chaos space marines because I don't think chaos has enough of a selection of units. we don't own the codex...
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Post by Corey on Dec 16, 2009 17:58:13 GMT -5
Did I say codex? I meant rule book. Bob told me to check the back of the rule book.
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