El Duque Azul comes to 8th
Jul 22, 2010 18:24:51 GMT -5
Post by bob on Jul 22, 2010 18:24:51 GMT -5
Some say VC took a hit in effectiveness in 8th.
I guess the loss of fear auto-break kind of hurts, not much to be done there, and I'm happy for the change (it did speed things up sometimes, but was lame).
Also not having a definite amount of dice every phase kind of hurts. "They" say that ending a caster's chance to cast spells when he fails to cast will reduce Invocation spam, but it's so easy to get cheap casters that I don't see that being a problem either.
Moreover, VC have some of the most effective ways to get more dice (in both phases)...Master of the Black Arts (adds 2 Power Dice) and the Black Periapt (save a die from this magic phase to use in the next).
More-moreover, I think the benefits of being a Horde are more applicable to VC, who can win fights thru attrition far better than other armies. I like Ghouls, though Skeletons might be the more effective option now with the ability to fight in so many ranks with spears, and having a musician for swift reform. Ghouls are more killy, though, so how do you handle a hundred of them?
2500 Pts - Vampire Counts Roster
Vampire Lord (1#, 440 pts)
. . 1 Vampire Lord @ 440 pts (General; Vampire; Level 3 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Undead)
. . . . 1 The Flayed Hauberk
. . . . 1 The Carstein Ring
. . . . 1 Forbidden Lore
. . . . 1 Master of the Black Arts
Vampire (1#, 220 pts)
. . 1 Vampire (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 220 pts (Vampire; Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer; Undead)
. . . . 1 Black Periapt
. . . . 1 Helm of Commandment
. . . . 1 Master of the Black Arts
Necromancer (1#, 95 pts)
. . 1 Necromancer @ 95 pts (Hand Weapon; Undead)
. . . . 1 Dispel Scroll
. . . . 1 0. Invocation of Nehek
. . . . 1 2. Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Necromancer (1#, 90 pts)
. . 1 Necromancer @ 90 pts (Hand Weapon; Undead)
. . . . 1 Power Stone
. . . . 1 0. Invocation of Nehek
. . . . 1 2. Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Crypt Ghouls (50#, 408 pts)
. . 49 Crypt Ghouls @ 408 pts (Causes Fear; Poisoned Attacks; Undead)
. . . . 1 Crypt Ghast
Crypt Ghouls (50#, 408 pts)
. . 49 Crypt Ghouls @ 408 pts (Causes Fear; Poisoned Attacks; Undead)
. . . . 1 Crypt Ghast
Squad (1#, 100 pts)
. . 1 Corpse Cart @ 100 pts (Balefire)
Squad (1#, 100 pts)
. . 1 Corpse Cart @ 100 pts (Balefire)
Varghulf (1#, 175 pts)
. . 1 Varghulf @ 175 pts (Vampire; Causes Terror; Hatred; Regenerate; Undead)
Varghulf (1#, 175 pts)
. . 1 Varghulf @ 175 pts (Vampire; Causes Terror; Hatred; Regenerate; Undead)
Cairn Wraith (5#, 275 pts)
. . 4 Cairn Wraiths @ 275 pts (Great Weapon; Causes Terror; Ethereal; Skirmishers; Undead)
. . . . 1 Tomb Banshee (Causes Terror; Ethereal; Undead)
Total Roster Cost: 2486
The idea here: Lord takes Lore of Beasts, and buffs the hell out of the Ghouls (S4 T5 ghouls, anyone?) and himself (A7 S8 T8?) and they go rampaging around.
The Varghulfs (Varghulvs?) have different jobs depending on what I'm fighting, but will generaly be the 'cavalry' of the force, using their M8 to project large threat; go fast to deal with war machines (their vampires, so can march); deal with light flanking forces or enemy cavalry; generally enjoy the addition of Thunderstomp. With a little luck one or both of them might get buffed to S6 T6 too!
The Wraiths also have a number of jobs, but are primarily for dealing with anything on the flanks of a ghoul unit. With scream and lots of high-S attacks packed in small footprint, along with being ethereal, they should be able to deal with anything that slips to the sides past the Varhulvs.
Another unit with many roles, the Corpse Carts look like a lot of fun. The two Balefires will help keep enemy casting down (instead of thinking of them as -2 to enemy casting, I think of them as +2 to all my dispels). They are also pretty survivable with t4 w3 and regen. They also got Thunderstomp, giving them a healthy 3d6 Attacks, though at low S2. Again, with some buffs from the Lord (he's going to be busy!) they could become really scary! I figure they can also help get on things trying to get around behind the ghouls and be pretty effective speedbumps!
The ghouls are a horde so attack in three ranks, giving them a possible 40 S3 Poison attacks to the front (though it's not likely they'd ever get that many...hard to get in btb with that many guys!). The massive number of them ensures that even if they're losing combat, as long as they're killing some things during the fight, they can hopefully outlive whatever they're fighting. Theory, I haven't done any math, but it sure seems fun!
To make the ghouls as killy as possible, the two Necros will be following along. Danse is still a wonderful spell for getting longer-range charges in, but where I think it will really shine is in giving the recepient ASF and Rerolls...those 40 Ghoul Attacks are a lot scarier when they're rerolling to-hit! The necros share a dispel and a powerstone, too, to add a little defense and magic offense in there. They know Invocation as well, so after getting off the danses they need to, they can spam invocation on 1 die...if they fail, no biggie, on to the next.
The army is also supported by the Vampire wearing the Crown of Command. His MoBA will give him two additional dice, and he'll probably have a third from the Black Periapt. His ability to spam invocation should be significant, too...but his real strength will be the Crown of Command...how much scarier are those 40 ghoul attacks when not only are they re-rolling, but they're WS6?
And of course, the Vampire Lord is designed to no lose...he's got access to Invocation and Beast Lore, allowing him to really buff up the army and do some damage with the damage spells. His 2+AS makes him pretty mean in a fight, and with the Carstein Ring I can throw him in to fights heedlessly without worrying about the insta-lose death of the General. Of course, he'll be able to throw some dice at Invocation as well...but I'd rather he get a few buffs off.
So the army is smaller unit-wise than I typically like, with only 8 deploys, but has tremendous potential to be very powerful, I think.
Now I just need to buy another $100 of ghouls I forsee some Goblins proxied as ghouls in my future!
I guess the loss of fear auto-break kind of hurts, not much to be done there, and I'm happy for the change (it did speed things up sometimes, but was lame).
Also not having a definite amount of dice every phase kind of hurts. "They" say that ending a caster's chance to cast spells when he fails to cast will reduce Invocation spam, but it's so easy to get cheap casters that I don't see that being a problem either.
Moreover, VC have some of the most effective ways to get more dice (in both phases)...Master of the Black Arts (adds 2 Power Dice) and the Black Periapt (save a die from this magic phase to use in the next).
More-moreover, I think the benefits of being a Horde are more applicable to VC, who can win fights thru attrition far better than other armies. I like Ghouls, though Skeletons might be the more effective option now with the ability to fight in so many ranks with spears, and having a musician for swift reform. Ghouls are more killy, though, so how do you handle a hundred of them?
2500 Pts - Vampire Counts Roster
Vampire Lord (1#, 440 pts)
. . 1 Vampire Lord @ 440 pts (General; Vampire; Level 3 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Undead)
. . . . 1 The Flayed Hauberk
. . . . 1 The Carstein Ring
. . . . 1 Forbidden Lore
. . . . 1 Master of the Black Arts
Vampire (1#, 220 pts)
. . 1 Vampire (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 220 pts (Vampire; Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer; Undead)
. . . . 1 Black Periapt
. . . . 1 Helm of Commandment
. . . . 1 Master of the Black Arts
Necromancer (1#, 95 pts)
. . 1 Necromancer @ 95 pts (Hand Weapon; Undead)
. . . . 1 Dispel Scroll
. . . . 1 0. Invocation of Nehek
. . . . 1 2. Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Necromancer (1#, 90 pts)
. . 1 Necromancer @ 90 pts (Hand Weapon; Undead)
. . . . 1 Power Stone
. . . . 1 0. Invocation of Nehek
. . . . 1 2. Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Crypt Ghouls (50#, 408 pts)
. . 49 Crypt Ghouls @ 408 pts (Causes Fear; Poisoned Attacks; Undead)
. . . . 1 Crypt Ghast
Crypt Ghouls (50#, 408 pts)
. . 49 Crypt Ghouls @ 408 pts (Causes Fear; Poisoned Attacks; Undead)
. . . . 1 Crypt Ghast
Squad (1#, 100 pts)
. . 1 Corpse Cart @ 100 pts (Balefire)
Squad (1#, 100 pts)
. . 1 Corpse Cart @ 100 pts (Balefire)
Varghulf (1#, 175 pts)
. . 1 Varghulf @ 175 pts (Vampire; Causes Terror; Hatred; Regenerate; Undead)
Varghulf (1#, 175 pts)
. . 1 Varghulf @ 175 pts (Vampire; Causes Terror; Hatred; Regenerate; Undead)
Cairn Wraith (5#, 275 pts)
. . 4 Cairn Wraiths @ 275 pts (Great Weapon; Causes Terror; Ethereal; Skirmishers; Undead)
. . . . 1 Tomb Banshee (Causes Terror; Ethereal; Undead)
Total Roster Cost: 2486
The idea here: Lord takes Lore of Beasts, and buffs the hell out of the Ghouls (S4 T5 ghouls, anyone?) and himself (A7 S8 T8?) and they go rampaging around.
The Varghulfs (Varghulvs?) have different jobs depending on what I'm fighting, but will generaly be the 'cavalry' of the force, using their M8 to project large threat; go fast to deal with war machines (their vampires, so can march); deal with light flanking forces or enemy cavalry; generally enjoy the addition of Thunderstomp. With a little luck one or both of them might get buffed to S6 T6 too!
The Wraiths also have a number of jobs, but are primarily for dealing with anything on the flanks of a ghoul unit. With scream and lots of high-S attacks packed in small footprint, along with being ethereal, they should be able to deal with anything that slips to the sides past the Varhulvs.
Another unit with many roles, the Corpse Carts look like a lot of fun. The two Balefires will help keep enemy casting down (instead of thinking of them as -2 to enemy casting, I think of them as +2 to all my dispels). They are also pretty survivable with t4 w3 and regen. They also got Thunderstomp, giving them a healthy 3d6 Attacks, though at low S2. Again, with some buffs from the Lord (he's going to be busy!) they could become really scary! I figure they can also help get on things trying to get around behind the ghouls and be pretty effective speedbumps!
The ghouls are a horde so attack in three ranks, giving them a possible 40 S3 Poison attacks to the front (though it's not likely they'd ever get that many...hard to get in btb with that many guys!). The massive number of them ensures that even if they're losing combat, as long as they're killing some things during the fight, they can hopefully outlive whatever they're fighting. Theory, I haven't done any math, but it sure seems fun!
To make the ghouls as killy as possible, the two Necros will be following along. Danse is still a wonderful spell for getting longer-range charges in, but where I think it will really shine is in giving the recepient ASF and Rerolls...those 40 Ghoul Attacks are a lot scarier when they're rerolling to-hit! The necros share a dispel and a powerstone, too, to add a little defense and magic offense in there. They know Invocation as well, so after getting off the danses they need to, they can spam invocation on 1 die...if they fail, no biggie, on to the next.
The army is also supported by the Vampire wearing the Crown of Command. His MoBA will give him two additional dice, and he'll probably have a third from the Black Periapt. His ability to spam invocation should be significant, too...but his real strength will be the Crown of Command...how much scarier are those 40 ghoul attacks when not only are they re-rolling, but they're WS6?
And of course, the Vampire Lord is designed to no lose...he's got access to Invocation and Beast Lore, allowing him to really buff up the army and do some damage with the damage spells. His 2+AS makes him pretty mean in a fight, and with the Carstein Ring I can throw him in to fights heedlessly without worrying about the insta-lose death of the General. Of course, he'll be able to throw some dice at Invocation as well...but I'd rather he get a few buffs off.
So the army is smaller unit-wise than I typically like, with only 8 deploys, but has tremendous potential to be very powerful, I think.
Now I just need to buy another $100 of ghouls I forsee some Goblins proxied as ghouls in my future!