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Post by ben on Mar 4, 2012 9:11:29 GMT -5
Armies standing a few feet from each other in lines shooting guns at each other, now that's how you fight a war!
Shane mentioned to me last Saturday that he had some interest in playing some Napoleonic or possibly American Civil War miniatures. I too have shared this interest for quite some time, although I hadn't heard anyone else say anything so I though I was all alone. Turns out Shane has some miniatures and rulebooks already, all he lacks is opponents!
We each have a book called Black Powder, which is a rule set which covers a pretty broad series of wars ranging from 1777 to 1884, when the wide introduction of magazine fed bolt action rifles made standing in lines shooting at each other not very much fun anymore.
Although a cool rule book with a lot of pretty pictures, they are focused on 25 or 28mm figures, and playing on a 6 x 10-14 foot table. Sounds cool, yes, but I for one have no place in my house where I could fit a 60 - 84 square foot playing surface without moving a great deal of furniture, and without commandeering pretty much all of the gaming space at Hobbytown, it might be difficult to arrange there as well.
So...this is an open forum to discuss interest, logistics, and suggestions for adding more miniatures to our collections for those of us who are interested. What era of battle do people want to play (American Civil War and Napoleonics are by far the most popular)? What scale would people be interested in? 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, and 28mm seem to be the most popular. What rule set are we going to use? What size tables do we need for the chosen scale, and do we have a place, either at Hobbytown or elsewhere, where we have access to that kind of space? The list goes on. Perhaps Shane and I are the only interested parties, and if so we'll continue our discussion, but if others are interested I wanted to include you as well.
Discuss!
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Post by panther on Mar 4, 2012 11:23:14 GMT -5
Id say 10mm because it would be the cheapest to collect and the easiest way to have bigger battles and what site do you get these from? . Id also like to do napoleonic Prussia.
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Post by bob on Mar 4, 2012 21:11:14 GMT -5
I have a lot of interest in both Nappy and ACW gaming. I'd favor 10 or 15mm gaming, which would allow human-sized tables and have some 'operational' level movement involved.
I know nothing about the game-systems, which is primarily why I haven't done anything for either game era.
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Post by ben on Mar 4, 2012 21:44:48 GMT -5
Hey Bob, I've been looking into this quite a bit over the last week or two. I would agree with you on the scale, favoring 15mm over 10 as I would find painting 15mm stuff a bit more enjoyable. There are also really reasonable options for 15mm figures (Old Glory figures run about $16 for 48 figures, which would be quite a few stands of infantry depending on the system).
So, for rules, here's what I've come up with:
- For American Civil War: either Johnny Reb III or Regimental Fire & Fury (from what I've read, Fire & Fury is a bit more user friendly and easy to get into).
- For Napoleonic: Lasalle: Tactical Warfare in the Age of Napoleon gets really good reviews from what I've read, and is also reasonably easy to get into. There are about a million rules options for Napoleonics, and I am continuing to research other options, but so far this one looks the best and has the best reviews.
All of these systems would play fine on a 4x6 table. I have ordered all three of these books and will give them a good read, and if anyone wants to have a look I'll bring them on a gaming day (I'll just ebay off the books we don't end up using). They will hopefully arrive sometime next week.
Let me know what you think, these are obviously just suggestions at this point.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Mar 4, 2012 22:39:53 GMT -5
Though historical gaming hasn't always tickled my fancy the same way fictional stuff does, I would definitely be willing to give some Civil War stuff a shot. My Uncle is a reenactor, so it'd be sweet to build up his company/platoon/whatever the organizational name is
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Post by shaneymania on Mar 4, 2012 23:18:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I've been dabbling with this Napoleonic stuff since Christmas - its opened up a whole new world of wargaming to me, but it may not for everyone's taste! There's not really one defining set of rules or model range,your army list pretty much only contains infantry, cavalry and cannons, and (hold tight!) there aren't really any kinds of points values associated with units - its more scenario based.
It's a significant investment, but there might be ways around it if you pick smaller scale plastic models.
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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2012 9:51:37 GMT -5
Black Powder is not GW, but written by GW guys...so frankly I'm skeptical already I have read that it is easily 'scalable', so that movement rate and weapon ranges make it playable on normal human tables. Like Brian, I'm partial to ACW stuff...I'd build Hood's Division from Longstreet's Corp with no hesitation! I read about about LaSalle, and something really minor that turned me off is that abstract manner in which Skirmishers are handled. Call me crazy, but I love the visual of a cloud of skirmishers in front of the main body of the battallions On a tangent, I have copies of almost all the old Tiller ACW and Nap games for PC. They are idea for PBEM games that take a few weeks to finish. I'd love to have an opponent, I'll gladly make some copies if anyone wants to give them a try!
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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2012 10:46:48 GMT -5
General de Brigade and Guns at Gettysburg, both by same author, both look like good scale with good reviews <edit> In fact, the more I read about these two game systems, the more I like them. The rules are said to include some sampe OOBs, and some sample battles. The author maintains a website and active forum. There are supplemental books with more scenarios and OOBs, and in some reviews I've seen mention of point values for balanced hypothetical battles. The game systems sounds very simple and straightforward, with the emphasis being on unit orders. Units are given an order at the start, and are compelled to follow those orders unless changed...and changing unit orders on a smokey loud crowded dangerous battlefield is no automatic thing! This to me is great, as the "friction" of the battlefield...units not doing exactly what you want them to right away...is what made the battles of the period work out how they did! Man, now I'm all worked up. You guys suck. I'm going to go make some copies of the ACW and Nap PC games and hand them out to everyone!
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Post by ben on Mar 5, 2012 11:34:46 GMT -5
I'd definitely be down with some PBEM, used to play a few of these games back in college. I'll look into Guns at Gettysburg as well as the others I ordered. I should have the Johnny Reb III and Regimental Fire & Fury rules in a couple days (shipped out this morning).
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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2012 12:14:08 GMT -5
I've been reading about Guns at Gettysburg and General de Brigade for 3 hours now, and I'm already hooked.
Simple mechanics, flexible scale, points and scenarios, add-on products...but one of the biggest things is that the game systems are very similar, so easier to play both eras!
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Post by panther on Mar 5, 2012 15:05:49 GMT -5
would you guys be okay if I brought prussian miniatures to use as union infantry? ?
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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2012 15:30:07 GMT -5
Prussians...they can be in the 11th Corps under Howard! They'll specialize in being put under flank/rear attack and running away!
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captainecho
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Post by captainecho on Mar 6, 2012 18:30:37 GMT -5
Bob, I love that I know someone who can make that joke. well done
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Post by bob on Mar 13, 2012 12:29:30 GMT -5
I have the General de Brigade rules (Deluxe version 3, released last fall), and am pretty impressed...it's a cleaned-up and streamlined version of what was used to make Guns at Gettysburg, so things work pretty much the same.
I'd love to see the LaSalle rules, if someone has them. I've read that they're making a 'campaign' system for LaSalle, which is something I think all of us tend to enjoy. I'd like to compare the systems and see what works.
Fortunately from what I'm reading, how you base things is more suggestions and guidelines than rules, so we should have no issue getting things to work in any game system for any era, as long as we do things consistently amongst ourselves.
Tom...Shane...haven't heard anything from you guys about this stuff recently. Any input?
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Post by shaneymania on Mar 13, 2012 13:01:23 GMT -5
I've currently got two sets of rules, one for 6mm Napoleonics from Baccus which seem pretty simple, and then Black Powder which I'm most interested in, but requires a lot of space. The other major downside you guys probably aren't going to like is a lack of points system for building forces. For Napoleonics, one thing we may want to look at is a new set of rules coming out from Field of Glory www.fieldofglory.com/ They make some top quality books for Ancients, partnering with Osprey, but this is their first foray into the Napoleonic era. LaSalle is also popular and has a lot of support. One set I've heard poor reviews on is Foundry's "Napoleon" rules. The book is gorgeous, but the reviews are not so great.
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