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Post by bob on Aug 25, 2013 17:01:25 GMT -5
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Post by RodTheCid on Sept 4, 2013 20:03:29 GMT -5
LOL yep just like that
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Post by bob on Sept 11, 2013 9:06:15 GMT -5
So, you marine players...what are your thoughts on the new hotness?
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Post by Tim on Sept 11, 2013 13:00:39 GMT -5
Everyone is talking about White Scars, and I have to admit it looks like a very strong build. I am still digesting the book, lots of units rules and combinations. I like the rules for the new AA tanks, they seem priced right. It's just sad to see this kind of book and the look back at the Dark Angels book. Where are my chapter tactics?
It's also nice when a book comes out and answers its own meta. Devastator Centurions are a great answer to Devestator Centurions for example.
I'd love to know the heavy hitters thoughts on it, as I was never super familiar with the old book.
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sionnach19
Full Member
Web-Team Editor/Writer
Posts: 2,709
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Post by sionnach19 on Sept 11, 2013 14:00:10 GMT -5
Black Templars are pretty lame... fluffy rules, but terrible ones. I really liked Ravenguard until I realized that Jump Packs count as bulky so Assault Marines don't benefit from scout. I think Iron Hands can make some cool armor skew lists. White Scars and Salamanders seem to be the strongest options, imo. Tack on Vulkan and you have all the usual buffs, plus free master crafted on all your sergeants which is a pretty nice advantage. White Scars special rules are just plain cool. Centurions are cool, but I'm not sure how great they are... maybe they'll blow me away (and I'm sure I'll be annoyed when a unit erases a TMC from the table in one turn ). I don't see them at all being necessary, especially since they have little synergy with the best Chapter Tactics. I think the book is solid enough by itself... but it really comes into its own when allied with Eldar or Tau, the other top tier armies. I think Space Marine armies have some inherent weaknesses (expensive troop units that are meh, no big cool giant flashy killy things, no premiere assault units and no chaff to bubble wrap against enemy assault units) by design. I think Eldar/Tau really help them in that regard. Besides being bummed about the Black Templar stuff, why did they have to change Heroic Intervention?! That was supposed to be the silver lining to the whole thing, that at least I could run 30 jump pack dudes who could assault out of reserves like badasses.
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Post by RodTheCid on Sept 11, 2013 21:15:10 GMT -5
haven't really had the time to enjoy the new book, I went really quick over the new units and tried to identify the interesting changes, but so far all I've noticed is the decrease in points for some units. I kind of like the Centurions, but as Brian said, they don't seems absolutely necessary, at least to my limited 40K knowledge; also feel that the flak ammunition for the missile launcher seems a little high on point costs, but on the other hand the AA Tanks seem right on points cost and fun to play, although I still don't understand why they didn't simple added AA to the Whirlwind. I would like to take the army for a test drive, maybe use a Predator as proxy for AA, by the way Predators with Lascannons side sponsons are cheaper
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Post by bob on Sept 12, 2013 8:30:33 GMT -5
I do like the decreased points cost. The AA Tank bothers me because it has Skyfire, but no Interceptor, so it's snap-shots at anything not flying. At 75 pts, I guess that's not that big a deal, but still. Ultramarine Chapter Tactics are super good, list needs to be built to use them. Iron Hands seems really blah to me...vehicles don't live long enough typically to care about IWND. BT got the shaft. Crimson Fists would be ok, but inexplicably their most elite unit using their most elite ammunition doesn't get trained as much so doesn't benefit?! What?! Ravenguard are blah, again inexplicably their signature unit doesn't benefit from their tactics...What?! White Scars Chapter Tactics are super duper good...they make Ravenwing look like amateurs! Salamanders are still good, better than they used to be I think. Thunderfire Cannons got SO MUCH BETTER. They are an auto-include, IMO. Barrage adds so much to what they do! Storms as Dedicated Transports for Scouts adds a lot, I think, and the Cerberus Launcher is gold vs. Tau (who are all Initiative 2!). Cheap and easy backfield melta delivery FTW! Grav weapons are great anti-heavy-infantry. I think bikes or command squads (or command squad bikes!) are the best delivery for them. Centurious are too expensive for something that dies to the other guys Centurions. Maybe stick them on a Skyshield and give everyone the finger? Still limited by range, though. Tigurius is the best psyker in the game, as he lets you reroll your powers...plus his other tricks. He's squishy, though. Big picture meta-wise, I see nothing really in here that's going to change anyone else's armies. The SM got cheaper, but still can't put enough bodies out there to survive Tau and/or Eldar. I have to say from a competitive tourney army building perspective, I'm a bit let down by the book. I have mountains of old marines and vehicles that I'd love to use, but don't see a way to make things tick. Best list I've come up with so far is straight White Scars: Khan (KHAAAAAAN!!!!!) on Moondraken Four biker units, each: 8 Bikes, Champ with Power Weapon, 2 GravGuns, plus Assault Bike with MM Two Scout units, each: 5 Scouts, Champ with Combi-Melta; Storm with Multi-Melta 3 Thunderfires 2 Stormtalons with Skyhammer Missiles The bikes can combat squad for a sexy 10 Troop units; 8 gravguns is 24 shots to drop riptides and wraithknights, etc; enough melta (FAST melta) to threaten vehicles, keeping Wave Serpents from shooting their Shields makes them far less terrifying; Respectable melee oomph, able to tie up key units and H&R away later; Stormtalons are respectable and cheap fliers that threaten anything; Thunderfires and all the Bolters shred boots on the ground, and can snipe out troublesome things like Grimoire Heralds; Since everything has Scout, I can do all kinds of non-linear outflanking reservey stuff....or just be in your face on turn 1. 40 T5 3+ wounds worth of bikes...not really all that hard to kill, sadly, though.
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Post by Calgar 2.0 on Sept 12, 2013 11:36:44 GMT -5
Anyone got the Vanguard or Sternguard kits yet? I could use the power axe from the Vanguard kit and one of the heads from the Sternguard kit.
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Post by bob on Sept 16, 2013 10:36:30 GMT -5
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Post by mikey on Sept 16, 2013 12:39:42 GMT -5
I'll go havsies with you if you want
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Post by RodTheCid on Sept 16, 2013 21:35:42 GMT -5
LOL the funniest part is that it says it is the dream of any hobbyist, I feel overwhelm just to think to paint all that :\
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Post by bob on Sept 17, 2013 9:21:42 GMT -5
Paint it hell...where would you PUT it?!? That would fill up your whole basement!!!
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Post by apothecarybob on Sept 17, 2013 10:47:08 GMT -5
I think my collection is already big enough without adding another 1200 models to it. Hell, not even all my armies combined add up to that many
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captainecho
Full Member
Web-Team Editor/Writer and Usurper
Posts: 1,901
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Post by captainecho on Sept 17, 2013 18:43:12 GMT -5
So at 11,690 dollars, and 1200 models included it comes out to only 9.74 dollars per models...and some of those are vehicles. so if we split this between 8 people, each would only pay 1461.25 cents, and would receive 150 space marine models. I think this is a no brainer...who wouldn't want to trade 1500 dollars for that?!
LETS DO THIS! IT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE! GAMES WORKSHOP IS GIVING THEM AWAY!
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Post by Tim on Sept 17, 2013 19:44:21 GMT -5
I already bought 2.
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