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Post by theslayer on Feb 22, 2016 20:38:36 GMT -5
I am able to make it with my Germans
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Post by Col Sanders on Feb 22, 2016 21:16:45 GMT -5
Lets keep it simple... Lets start with this and tweak it....... 3 objectives.... See Figure Below... Bastogne will be on a board that connects both legs... in a north south fashion....
"H" configuration (7 boards)... 5000 points for Germans... 6000 points for US...... No US air Support till Turn 7..... No German Air....Winter rules... Books (DC, Nuts, BG&G)
Initial Deployment.... 2 Germans Panzer Kompanies deploy within 12" of Eastern edge.... Turn 1..... 2 German Mechanizied or Grenadiers companies enter Turn 1 on Eastern edge.....
Initial Deployment.... Americans Deploy ~600 points (one tank platoon, one Infantry Platoon, one Recon Platoon)north and south of Bastogne.... US Paras (~1200 points) Deploy with 12" of Western Edge... Turn 1.... US Combat Engineers (~1200 points) enter Western edge.... Turn 2.... 2nd Infantry (~1500 points) enter Western edge.... Turn 6.... US Tank Company (~1500 points) enters southern Edge....
USA :::::OBJ::::::::: :::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::: Germans I I I Bastogne I I I USA :::::OBJ:::::::: ::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::: Germans
Both sides will have to make strategic decisions... BOTH SIDE ARE UNDER TIME PRESSURE AND NEED TO BE MOBIL.....
I can come Friday to help set up boards....
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Post by theslayer on Feb 23, 2016 15:01:59 GMT -5
So I can use either nuts or Devil's Charge or just Nuts? Also put me down for axis! Can't wait!
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Post by Lord Ærynn on Feb 23, 2016 16:29:38 GMT -5
Lets keep it simple... Lets start with this and tweak it....... 3 objectives.... See Figure Below... Bastogne will be on a board that connects both legs... in a north south fashion.... "H" configuration (7 boards)... 5000 points for Germans... 6000 points for US...... No US air Support till Turn 7..... No German Air....Winter rules... Books (DC, Nuts, BG&G) Initial Deployment.... 2 Germans Panzer Kompanies deploy within 12" of Eastern edge.... Turn 1..... 2 German Mechanizied or Grenadiers companies enter Turn 1 on Eastern edge..... Initial Deployment.... Americans Deploy ~600 points (one tank platoon, one Infantry Platoon, one Recon Platoon)north and south of Bastogne.... US Paras (~1200 points) Deploy with 12" of Western Edge... Turn 1.... US Combat Engineers (~1200 points) enter Western edge.... Turn 2.... 2nd Infantry (~1500 points) enter Western edge.... Turn 6.... US Tank Company (~1500 points) enters southern Edge.... USA :::::OBJ::::::::: :::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::: Germans I I I Bastogne I I I USA :::::OBJ:::::::: ::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::: Germans Both sides will have to make strategic decisions... BOTH SIDE ARE UNDER TIME PRESSURE AND NEED TO BE MOBIL..... I can come Friday to help set up boards.... Jim, I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You say both sides are under time pressure and need to be mobile, yet, the ALLIES START THE GAME IN CONTROL of one objective, AND HAVE THE OTHER TWO OBJECTIVES AT THEIR FEET AS THEY START. The Germans, however, have to cover roughly TEN FEET of table to contest them, meanwhile, the allies have the ability to dig in and hold the line. Additionally, you give the allies a TWENTY PERCENT POINT ADVANTAGE AS THE DEFENDERS in a "mobile battle" AND you let them drop a tank company out of reserve on the side/rear of 2 German companies. With snow covered ground using the winter rules, movement is severely hampered, meaning, that if there is NO terrain blocking a German advance AND NO ALLIES TO FIGHT, it will take vehicles FIFTEEN TURNS and infantry TWENTY TURNS JUST TO GET WITHIN FOUR INCHES OF THE OBJECTIVES. THIS IS SO BROKEN I DON'T THINK IT CAN BE "TWEAKED".
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Post by Col Sanders on Feb 23, 2016 19:39:01 GMT -5
Eight feet of board (but we could adjust objectives, I was going to place objectives about 36" from western edge)... Germans get spearhead in the first turn if they use SS Panzer IVJs and Gerpartz Grenadiers? With 600 Americans points initially on board.... One German advance might get blocked for a turn or two... Its possible, One German advance may be on the out skirts of Bastogne before the Paras even get there..... There will be roads in each leg, 12"/turn for tracked vehicles for winter rules... plus storm trooper.... Off road is slow going in snow.... "Ice" rule is optional (skidding)... But it would affect both sides... Basically, after turn one you need to go 6 feet to get to an objective... But in reality German objectives were "ambitious"... Movement for both sides will be critical.... A Challenge? Yes.... As for points... I wanted to reflect the actual action... Initially, Germans had about a 2 to 1 advantage in material.... within 2 weeks the Americans had about a 5 to 1 advantage in material.... Secondly, Patton's army from the south relieves Bastogne... Secondly, the US Tank Company will be coming on "Off Road" and will need several turns just to form up an attack Turn 8 ... Is this arrangement perfect? I don't know... Maybe back load more American points to later turns... But I thing it will be fun... and its something we can build on for the future... My only concern is whether or not we can actually configure the tables and boards to accommodate the "H"..... If your not happy with this... We could just do the siege of Bastogne and Limit forces to Nuts....
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Post by shaneymania on Feb 23, 2016 20:16:43 GMT -5
Can I bring Easy Company?
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Post by Lord Ærynn on Feb 23, 2016 20:24:59 GMT -5
Can I bring Easy Company? Yes. I'm going to take that as a "sign me up for allies..."
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Post by Lord Ærynn on Feb 23, 2016 20:35:27 GMT -5
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to dictate what we do. Honestly, I don't care what we do. I just want to make sure the game is balanced and fun for everyone.
I think we have 2 good options here: 1) Bastogne - Just Bastogne 2) A winter Bulge-themed mobile battle scenario
Until we decide on which is wanted, we can't decide on how it should be done.
I think the idea for doing a T-shaped table for Bastogne is pretty clear, but the other scenario could use some work. If we are going to use winter rules, the table will need to be shorter than what we would usual look for.
COULD WE HEAR FROM THE OTHER PLAYERS PLEASE?
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captainecho
Full Member
Web-Team Editor/Writer and Usurper
Posts: 1,901
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Post by captainecho on Feb 23, 2016 20:49:56 GMT -5
Jim, I just think you're too tied down to a specific simulation. Its a cool idea, and I remember when I spent a ton of thought and time into making up what I thought was a great scenario last time, I was pretty tied to it. But With this many people and a game this size, its better to keep it a little more straightforward. And I think a scenario more like what Kevin outlined would work better. It gives the Americans some tools to slow the Germans down, and then the US troops come to the rescue. Last time we ran this the Germans didn't have much of a prayer, and it wasn't balanced. I also think trying to simulate several weeks of strategic movement of supplies and troops with a company level game may be unrealistic. If we are playing this game on Saturday, and we're eating some birthday cake with Rod, lets set the points, let people know what to bring and try something a little more compact, where everyone can play from turn one, and we get a big disastrous scrum in the middle?
And Kevin, I sent you a PM....regarding...Secret German Plans. (Grady gave me some ideas....)
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Post by theslayer on Feb 23, 2016 21:20:43 GMT -5
Here are some of my ideas...
A. We can make a smaller "H" shape with wider sides
==1t== ==2t== ==3t== ==4t== === =5= === ====== ====== ====== ======
Table 5 would be the city Each/selected tables can hold objectives
B. Make a long table with Bastogne in the middle
==1t== ==2t== ==3t== ==4t==
This is just a larger scale of a normal battle (you can make varients on the table arrangement)
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Post by redleg on Feb 24, 2016 15:09:18 GMT -5
The points value for the game is 1420 or 1500pts also I will not be using tanks in my list.make up your mind so I am playing a list from D.C. The 2in div a forted company.
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Post by Lord Ærynn on Feb 24, 2016 15:52:27 GMT -5
I think we should just stick to playing a Bastogne battle, as the H-shaped table and mobile battle set up could be good for running a BG&G Scenario, where both sides have mobile forces and we're not connecting things from two areas into one for the sake of using several books. Is everyone good with doing this and working on the H for BG&G or some other book line-up?
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Post by RodTheCid on Feb 24, 2016 16:00:13 GMT -5
sorry I disappeared again guys, Last night I went over all the posts and I don’t think my previous note really help at all, also spend some time reading actual facts on the Ardennenoffensive operation and just realized the size of the operation, we’re talking about a frk’n FIVE armies offensive across 350km front, 16 Infantry and 8 armored divisions and this is only the German side, I think we should stick with something closer to the FoW scale, mainly because we only have a couple of days to get it ready, so if we’re talking about 4 Companies on each side (barely a battalion size force) we should do something accordingly. I can’t lie, I would really like to do a mobile battle and change the scenario that we have played many times before, but I understand that we have the time upon us, so I also think we should do the siege of Bastogne, it has plenty of interesting units to choose from, 101AD, 10th and 9th Armored, 705th TD, Combat Engineers, Field Artillery, and on the German side we have the 26th Volksgrenadier, 5 - Fallschirmjäger, Panzer Lehr and 2 – Panzer. With this in mind I think it looks more than obvious that we don’t need the Blood, Guts & Glory book and Devil’s Charge seems like a stretch but I wouldn't oppose if we use this last one. Back to the scenario, the main battles of the siege starter on Dec. 19th by this time the perimeter was already set about 1.5 miles away from the town, so we can use Kevin idea and set a table with the town of Foy on one side Bizory village in the center and the town of Marvie on the other side, there are roads going through this three towns towards Bastogne (not in the table) a railway between Foy and Bizory and the Wiltz River between Bizory and Marvie, in the image below the blue square would be roughly our setup, which can be any shape we want.
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Post by theslayer on Feb 24, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5
That's a really good idea Rod... I'm assuming that the cities are the 3 objectives?
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Post by Lord Ærynn on Feb 24, 2016 19:32:16 GMT -5
It seems to me that the objectives would be the road leading from Foy to Bastogne, the railway leading Northeast out of Bastogne, the crossroads along the railway just north of Neffe, and the town of Marvie. I would love to represent exactly what Rod has highlighted in this area on the table. It seems to me that a 12x6 rectangular table would do. We could outline the allied deployment area with string.
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