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Post by bob on Nov 28, 2011 13:40:57 GMT -5
Just playing with Army Builder. Nothing fancy, just hammer/anvil with a big monster and decent magic.
Lords Black Orc Warboss: Talisman of Preservation (4+ Ward); Enchanted Shield (+2 AS); Basha's Axe of Stunty Smashin (AP; +1A & S) Wyvern - 420
Night Goblin Great Shaman: Lvl 4 Upgrade; Dispel Scroll - 200
Heroes Black Orc Big Boss: Battle Standard; Shield; Dragonhelm; Talisman of Endurance Orc Boar Chariot - 242
Goblin Shaman: Lvl 2 Upgrade Giant Wolf - 102
Core 42 Night Goblins: Standard; Musician; 3 Fanatics; Netters - 266
42 Night Goblins: Standard; Musician; 3 Fanatics; Netters - 266
20 Night Goblins: Shortbows; Boss; Standard; Musician - 90
5 Goblin Wolf Riders: Musician; Shortbows, Shields - 70
Special 6 Trolls - 210
Orc Boar Chariot - 85
Orc Boar Chariot - 85
Rare Mangler Squig - 65
Snotling Pump Wagon: Flappas; Giant Exploding Spores; Out-rigga - 75
Arachnarok Spider: Flinger - 320
Lord on Wyvern has nice 18" Ld9 bubble, to keep Trolls and the NG blobs happy.
Only the Wolf riders and 3 NG units seem to suffer from animosity.
The NG blobs go 5-wide, nice and deep, staying stubborn. They go find the meanest the enemy has and tie it up, losing horribly and staying stubbron on rerolling Ld 9 (from General and BSB).
Then Trolls and/or triple chariot flank charge will kill whatever the NG are fighting. Hammer/Anvil.
The NG Archers are bunker for the Lvl 4. The Wolf Riders are home for the Lvl 2. Sneaky Stabbin will go great on one of the flanking units; Gift of the Spider-god can do well on nearly any of these units; Itych Nuisance and Gork'll Fix It are great. Shroud isn't horrible, and Curse can be a game winner if in a good spot.
The Pump Wagon and Manger Squig are both really power, cheap, disposable, and will attract way more attention than there points warrant. I'm particularly fond of the Mangler Squig!
Spider can spit poison at big units and be a big flank threat too.
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Post by Tim on Nov 28, 2011 20:31:00 GMT -5
So I'll give you my thoughts on the list, I'm sure you won't mind.
First of all, the pros. I like the General on Wyvern. A lot of fantasy these days revolves around big blocks or dealing with big blocks. People don't always bring lots of answers to big monsters. If you focus on taking out those threats early the beastie can run riot more or less.
I'm also a huge fan of trolls. Regeneration and vomit attacks, whats not to like. With your general and BSB they shouldn't be stupid much.
I also love the mangler squig, also, did you see the model they just came out with for it? Nuff said.
Same thing for the pump wagon.
Most of what I would suggest is preference but I'll run with it anyway. I think a level 4 orc shaman would be a better choice with the level 2 goblin to support. There really are some killer spells in the Big Waaagh.
I know why you are running the goblin blocks, they really make sense to hold something up but they will get chewed up quickly by nasty units so be ready to have that hammer in there quick.
I completely understand the chariots and some quick cheap deployments but I'm wondering if you need them with the pump wagon and mangler squig.
I also completely understand the spider, but I feel its much like my Stonehorn, big, fun on the table, can smash things, and a cool model, but ultimately it's too many points. There is an argument for it and against it with the wyvern, two big gribblies will certainly help at least one survive, but is there really a need for more than one?
Lastly, this is really preference but I love Savage Orc and Black Orc blocks. Using some spare points from the spider and/or chariot you could replace one of those night goblin blocks with a really solid Orc block, both a hammer and anvil.
Those are my thoughts. I think you have a real knack for list building, you should make an ogre list some time, I'll let you use mine if you want to give it a whirl.
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Post by gretchinmike on Nov 28, 2011 21:38:48 GMT -5
Definatly lots of threats in that... I've never thought of mangled squigs to be gold, I just thought of them as oversized fanatics. I'm interested in trying out squig hoppers now, as they pack a punch and are fast. I didn't know about the 18" rule with the wyvern, making it nice... 3 chariots are rather strong and can get around, plus the pumpwagon causes for a very strong punch if I can get te sides with just one. I'll think more of it later tomorrow. Thanks though for the effortyou put towards it.
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Post by Tim on Nov 28, 2011 22:06:09 GMT -5
Mangler squigs are the bomb diggity. They are like super awesome fanatics that hit super hard for 65 points. They decimate things they touch. And yes they are subject to being shot at, but if they are shooting at a 65 point model then they aren't shooting at your dragon riding general, chariots or pump wagons.
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Post by bob on Nov 29, 2011 14:55:24 GMT -5
I'm not sold on either lore. Both are pretty spiffy, and I thought it kind of cool that a lvl2 and lvl 4 together would get all the spells wanted. I do like the teleport spell in the Orc lore. I took the three chariots mainly because they really need to get a quick decisive flank shot because the NG will die by the handful. I also have that 40k mentality now, where you can't have just one of something, and two means when the first one dies you're left to just one, so you have to take three to make sure the job gets done. With cheap Orc stuff, it seems to fit nicely. Big negative about the BSB on a chariot is he can't march to get the banner where it's needed, but not a huge deal. I too like Orc blocks, but it seems ubiquitous to use the NG from the 4 Battle for Skull Passes everyone has around, and Fanatics are quite nice area denial and fluffy O&G fun. Black Orcs I think are still too expensive, and Orcs aren't much better than Goblins after the first turn. Best of all, I think having a hundred Goblins on the table would just look downright spiffy. If switching the Lvl 4 to an Orc, then switching the 20 NG Archers might be needed so that Shaman isn't stuck on the end of the line (different base size rules). The big spider is definitely not a 'must-take', but with the Flinger I think it adds a lot of value. It's Stubborn, T6, and has a ton of attacks, so can tie up units for awhile, kill units, sit back and shoot, terrorize things, climb over buildings...I mean really, that's the visual that does it for me, is this giant sillying spider climbing over a house with a bunch of goblins shrieking and clinging to his back. Other than the visual, he gives some target saturation and is kind of a tool box to do what's needed. If I were driving the list on the table I'd have him fling webs all day and guard the flank of the Chariots. The Mangler Squig is full of win. He's a triple damage fanatic that you get to control until it hits what you want. Moreover, he's always counted as in cover, I believe, so not too easy to kill with shooting. Attached is something I do when really in to a list...I throw it all in power-point, where it's easy to make the units roughly to scale. Gives me a good idea of how it fits together, and how I'd try to deploy. Devoid of any terrain to avoid, here I've got the NG and "chaff" (pumpwagon and squig) deployed forward, on the flanks. Also forward are the NG hordes. The Wyvern is nice and central, giving his Ld to everyone. The Trolls and Chariots are in position to charge the flanks of whatever is hitting the Night Goblins, while the Wolves can screen and be a pain. General can quickly relocate to get out of harms way. Spider can go wherever, he might be better in the middle (in front of Wyvern) to intercept things the NG can't reach. Archer bunker safe in the rear. Just kind of gives my brain a visual. Attachments:
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Post by RodTheCid on Nov 30, 2011 16:54:53 GMT -5
I'm too an Orcs fan over NG, but this list seems fun, either a disaster early in the game because all of the NG ran or were killed by their own fanatics or a solid victory, which is what I like about O&G they're just fun to play with, also it seems strange but this list have a lot of mobility, something that you don’t see in all O&G lists, between the chariots, pump wagon and the big spider any opponents flank will suffer.
I really need to redo my O&G list and need at least on big monster to proxy a Wyvern, maybe a nice conversion project… mhhh… now you made Bob… I just added yet another project to my list ;D
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Post by Tim on Nov 30, 2011 18:03:04 GMT -5
You don't have to sell me on the Spider. You're talking to a guy who played Ogres before they got a new book... in 7th... and was the only Ogre player in a tourney of 164 players... I get it =D
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