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Post by bob on Aug 3, 2012 12:43:10 GMT -5
So with my beloved daemons dug out of their pit in a cave under a rock in the basement, I'm really itching to field them for Fantasy!
I've been "out of it" for Fantasy for a long time, so my idea of what "works" may be a bit off, so I'd love some feedback here:
Heroes -Skulltaker - 200 Juggernaut -Herald of Khorne - 240 Armour of Khorne; Firestorm Blade; BSB - Great Icon of Despair (-2 to enemy Ldr in 12") - Herald of Tzeentch - 165 Master of Sorcery (Life); Spellbreaker (Scroll)
Core[/u] -5 Furies - 60 -33 Horrors of Tzeentch - 477 Full Command; The Changeling; Icon of Sorcery; Level 3 Wizard -30 Bloodletters - 378 Standard, Musician
Special[/u] -10 Fleshhounds - 350 -8 Fleshhounds - 280 -3 Screamers - 120 -3 Screamers - 120
Rare[/u] -Fiend of Slaanesh - 55 -Fiend of Slaanesh - 55
Total: 2500[/u]
Skulltaker runs with the 8-dog FH unit, trying to hunt the meanest the enemy character (I'm looking at you, Slaughtermaster!), charging out of the unit if required or having the dogs nip at his heels.
The other FH unit looks to flank things engaged with the Horrors or BL, depending on how the situation works out.
The Tz Herald of course goes in the Horrors, giving them all a 4+ Ward. The Horrors throw 6 dice at Bolt, hopefully taking down high-T, high-AS meanies. The Herald then replaces their losses with Life magic, as well as slinging Dwellers to be dirty. Once they get engaged in melee, they're very deep, enjoying a nice ward save, Changeling can soak up Challenges, and they'll hopefully stay steadfast long enough for Gift and Thorns to beat down whatever's engaging them.
The Bloodletters go Horde with the Herald in there for Hatred. WS5 S5 should dish out some pain, not to mention the Killing Blow. Muhahaha!
The Fiends are fast as hell (M10), able to chase off enemy chaff, hunt warmachines, or dive in to a flank for extra CR and a fair amount of attacks.
Furies are cheap fliers, handy for tieing up warmachines and general harrassment.
The new Screamers will do a few wounds every now and then with fly-overs, but they'll really shine in hunting down things like HPA and Hydra, where they should go first and their flaming d3-wound causing attacks should reduce them to scooby-snacks in no time. They're also very capable of attacking shooty-units and warmachines, and being a general pain in the butt.
So, two big infantry units, two biggish cavalry units, 2 little chaff guys, 3 flying PITA units, Skulltaker, decent magic (only lvl 3, would love to get up to lvl 4!). Note I've dropped Flamers, I think they're still an awesome unit after the nerf, I just want to not have to use that crutch.
You fantasy guys, please C&C!
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Post by Ben on Aug 3, 2012 15:23:16 GMT -5
Looks like a fairly solid list to me. I'd go a bit bigger with those bloodletters...as they are only t3 not very resiliant, and as soon as they start taking casualties they start losing combat effectivness. I'd take 35 so they can at least take a few casualties. Also not to many infantry which might be an issue, I myself prefer to take at least 3 blocks at 2500, but you could make do with two. I'd drop one of the hound units and take more infantry in their place. Deffinetly keep the fiends though, M10 at 55pts is great.
I'd be happy to play agaisnt your deamon list, let you try it out.
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Post by bob on Aug 3, 2012 16:30:04 GMT -5
I understand and agree. The problem, at least for my style, is that Daemons don't have cheap infantry...all 12pts each. If I get three big units, well, that's a lot! And while Daemon core aren't horrible, they're not so cool that I really WANT a lot of them. I mean I could load up on Daemonettes and throw Razor on them and watch them munch things, I guess...but...well, hell, that's a damned good idea, and I may try that. But other than that, I just don't really like the Daemon core! 25mm + horde = Pain in the butt to move! I'm absolutely not sold on the big dog units. I remember trying them in the past, but don't remember my results! I take them that way so they don't kill over too quickly to a good round of shooting, and they're pretty killy...I think of them as medium cavalry...hard-hitting, but not too hard to kill off. So, I'd love to get a game in. I'll get things dusted off and organized. I expect my next opportunity to play will be after work Mon Aug 6th, or during the day Sat Aug 11th.
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Post by Tim on Aug 3, 2012 16:39:12 GMT -5
Daemons are one of those armies I hear about how everything is good so it doesn't really matter. I agree as well with the core blocks, but want all the other throw away units to block stuff up as well. Skulltaker is a beast and will rock some lists, my ogres hate him, but against lots of lists he is over kill vs a regular herald. Heroic killing blow is nice but hard to rely on. Flesh hounds do buzz saw through soft units, WS 5 is nice.
I'd definitely take the screamers but wonder if they just become easy points against a bit of shooting. I'd like to see how they go.
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Post by bob on Aug 3, 2012 18:05:20 GMT -5
I agree about the easy points vs. shooting. They're too expensive to hang out to get shot. I'm not really sure on them yet, they just seem like they'd do what I like units to do, and that's force people to make bad choices...shoot at the t4 w2 fliers, or shoot at the t4 w2 doggies, or shoot at the t3 furies, or the fiends, or the big blocks...I like bad choices
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Post by Ben on Aug 4, 2012 9:48:11 GMT -5
Saturday the 11th is better for me.
If you're not sold on the fleshounds I would drop one of those units...I think it's better to spend those points on more infantry. Maybe drop a unit of screamers and the small unit of hounds and take another unit of bloodletters.
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Post by Ben on Aug 19, 2012 21:15:42 GMT -5
Bob, if you still want to try out this list, I can probaly come labor day weekend..away this weekend though.
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Post by bob on Aug 19, 2012 21:38:44 GMT -5
Ok, I've got them in a box-lid ready to go. I'm not sure of football schedule, may have first game that weekend, will let you know for sure!
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Post by Ben on Aug 20, 2012 19:29:02 GMT -5
Alright sounds good.
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Post by bob on Feb 11, 2013 21:40:52 GMT -5
Tweaked a bit, lots of hordes. Juggers might be cannon bait, but possible. Stupid good magic; stupid good melee hordes; solid point denial; good speed. No shooting...problem? 2500 Pts - Daemons of Chaos Roster Herald of Tzeentch (1#, 165 pts) . . 1 Herald of Tzeentch, 165 pts (General; Locus of Tzeentch; Level 2 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Flaming Attacks; Immune to Psychology) . . . . 1 Master of Sorcery. . . . 1 Spell BreakerHerald of Khorne (1#, 265 pts) . . 1 Herald of Khorne (Battle Standard Bearer), 265 pts (Locus of Khorne; Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Hatred; Immune to Psychology; Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1)) . . . . 1 Juggernaut of Khorne (Brass Behemoth; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1); Stomp; Swiftstride) . . . . 1 Great Icon of Despair. . . . 1 Armour of KhorneHerald of Khorne (1#, 190 pts) . . 1 Herald of Khorne, 190 pts (Locus of Khorne; Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Hatred; Immune to Psychology; Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1)) . . . . 1 Juggernaut of Khorne (Brass Behemoth; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1); Stomp; Swiftstride) . . . . 1 Armour of Khorne. . . . 1 Firestorm BladeChaos Furies (5#, 60 pts) . . 5 Chaos Furies, 60 pts (Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Flyer; Immune to Psychology) Chaos Furies (5#, 60 pts) . . 5 Chaos Furies, 60 pts (Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Flyer; Immune to Psychology) Bloodletters of Khorne (30#, 415 pts) . . 29 Bloodletters of Khorne, 415 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1)) . . . . 1 Bloodreaper (Hand Weapon) . . . . 1 Icon of Endless WarBloodletters of Khorne (29#, 403 pts) . . 28 Bloodletters of Khorne, 403 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1)) . . . . 1 Bloodreaper (Hand Weapon) . . . . 1 Icon of Endless WarPink Horrors of Tzeentch (38#, 537 pts) . . 37 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, 537 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Flaming Attacks; Immune to Psychology) . . . . 1 The Changeling (Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Flaming Attacks; Immune to Psychology) . . . . 1 Icon of Sorcery. . . . 1 1. Flickering Fire of Tzeentch (Flaming Attacks) . . . . 1 4. Gift of Chaos . . . . 1 5. Bolt of Change. . . . 1 6. Tzeentch's Firestorm (Flaming Attacks) Flesh Hounds of Khorne (5#, 175 pts) . . 5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne, 175 pts (Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Magic Resistance (3); Swiftstride) Flesh Hounds of Khorne (5#, 175 pts) . . 5 Flesh Hounds of Khorne, 175 pts (Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Magic Resistance (3); Swiftstride) Fiends of Slaanesh (1#, 55 pts) . . 1 Fiends of Slaanesh, 55 pts (Armour Piercing; Hand Weapon; Causes Fear; Daemonic; Immune to Psychology; Stomp; Swiftstride) . . . . 1 Soporific MuskValidation Report: Army Subtype: Daemons of Chaos; Edition: 8th Edition; Game Type: Normal Game; Special Rules: Forbid Regiments of Renown Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules Composition Report: Points of Lords: 0 (0 - 625) Points of Heroes: 620 (0 - 625) Points of Core: 1355 (625 - Unlimited) Points of Special: 350 (0 - 1250) Points of Rare: 55 (0 - 625) Total Roster Cost: 2500 Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at www.wolflair.com
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Post by Ben on Feb 11, 2013 21:50:30 GMT -5
Fun stuff Bob. Do you need the bsb as you have the unstable rule? I believe it just does 1 less wound from unstable correct? I think those heralds on juggernauts are a bit pricey when you could be taking bloodcrushers. I'm not sure how good those guys are but if they are anywhere near as good as skullcrushers, the WoC equvilant I'd take 3 instead of 1 of the heralds. Overall looks pretty good. Nice solid bloodletter hordes, pink horrors for some magic. Only weakness may be most of your units are a little squish with t3 but I think the furies will help you deal with those pesky warmachines. If you can fit another fiend in I'd do that as it's a nice distraction and support unit. As long as you get those bloodletters into combat with some support, say from the fiend and/or hounds I think they will do quite well.
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Post by bob on Feb 11, 2013 22:59:35 GMT -5
No offense, but do you know the Daemon Codex? Unstable means I take the break test as normal, if I fail I take a wound for every point I fail buy. BSB allows the normal reroll. Skullcrushers are not Daemons. You mean Bloodcrushers? They're like 75 points a model...I've had little success with them. Heralds of Khorne in units of Bloodletters give them hatred....30 WS5 S5 Killing Blow attacks...with Rerolls to hit. Those units are not squishy in the least. What are you going to squish them with that they don't squish first? You going to come get tied up with the 8-rank deep Horror unit with 4+ ward that you dare not throw a character in to as the Changeling will punk him, and you'll get Gift of Chaos'd and Thorned down to nothing while Hounds eat your flank? Going to come charge the bloodletters, who eat you at I4? Better to charge them, I guess, but their average charge range is about 15"...good luck One thing I'd really like to have is a bit more chaff...Nurglings are calling me for chaff purposes...but this is similar to the list I'd won a few Brother's Grim tourneys with (they even made their own "locals only" tourney after me, eric, sean, and brian went down and beat them up a bit!). Life loremaster in big block of tough troops with melee around it is really really powerful... it'll be on the table, hopefully ready in a week. I have to figure out a way to get round based guys to work on the cheap without chopping off a finger
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Post by apothecarybob on Feb 11, 2013 23:49:58 GMT -5
Daemons; one of the three armies I absolutely hate fighting against, and this shows why lol
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Feb 11, 2013 23:57:47 GMT -5
Honestly, that Horror block is probably the toughest thing I can remember fighting in Fantasy. Super magic, self-buffing to replenish numbers, impossible to kill... tough Daemon list, I dig it. Didn't you use to run a Bloodthirster? Those guys are cool... I wish they were good in at least one of the game systems!
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Post by Ben on Feb 12, 2013 7:11:10 GMT -5
No offense, but do you know the Daemon Codex? Not well. I've seen it a few times bit I hardly know the inner workings of it. I thought deamon's unstable was just like it is for TK or VC..no break test, just lose that many guys you lose the combat by. I know skullcrushers are not deamons, I have some! I was suggesting you take the deamon equivalent to them, the bloodcrushers, but I understand they may not be as good. I recal heralds give bloodletters hatred. With that in mind yes you want them. Who get's loremaster life? That's a cool ability. While the +4 ward on the pink horrors is nice I'd watch out for throwing them into combats with something that wounds them on 2s. +4 ward can only do so much. More chaff is always nice. Not sure what you could drop though as everything seems pretty nice..
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