captainecho
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Post by captainecho on Jan 23, 2013 12:42:32 GMT -5
I'm up for an escalation league...but I only have the starter set of Cygnar stuff. I someone is willing to loan me the pieces, I can get involved, but I made a vow not to buy new stuff until my birthday, (April). And I would need to get in another demo or two to have a solid understanding of game mechanics. The game in my mind is a lot more tactical an cerebral than others, playing like a large scale game of chess. I liked it better than 40k, and it costs less.
So if someone can lend me some stuff for a Cgnar list, I'm in.
Also, consider he calendar. We have Battle of the bulge in 2 weeks, a lot of Ordo folks heading to brothers grimm on Feb 10th, and a painting competition scheduled for March 16h (tentative date) So would march work as a jumping off point?
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Post by hivemindbob on Jan 23, 2013 13:42:50 GMT -5
I think Rod said, our next Warmachine Hordes in like March or April, so I'll see what we can do.
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Post by whitestar333 on Jan 23, 2013 14:18:19 GMT -5
March would be great for me (spring break) and I'm sure that we could get some of the college kids in on it too. My problem with escalation leagues is that it requires people to spend money and that might be a turn-off for some. Instead if we just offer additional benefits for expanding the army instead of requiring it, you might get people to naturally expand their forces.
And I do have a ton of Cygnar stuff if you want to try out lists :-)
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Jan 23, 2013 14:48:44 GMT -5
My idea for league play was similar to what I think the Flames guys do (though I honestly have no clue!).
Three months. First month 15 points, second month 25 points, third month 35 points. You can play as many games as you want within that time, but only the best two or three of your results count (so the advantage to playing more games is dropping lower scores). 3 points for a win, 1 for a loss... something simple like that. We can either have teams, with everyone's points contributing towards their side (while fun, this restricts potential opponents perhaps unnecessarily) or keep track individually... doesn't matter. Conclude the event with either a tournament or mega battle, and then hand out fun prizes. We could start in March with a kickoff event (battlebox tourney? Or a full blown tournament, though that seems counter-intuitive if we're trying an escalation event). A three month build means we run from mid-March through mid-June... done by the end of school, for most folks.
Good points on the escalation league perhaps being a deterrent to some people -- it also prevents more experienced players from using the size armies they want to, for tournament prep or whatever else they want. On the plus side, it's a framework for newer players to learn the rules gradually (and for some of us to relearn the rules!).
Excited to see what you cook up, Bobby. I'm traveling a bunch in March/May which could limit my involvement, but I'll try my best to be involved.
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captainecho
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Post by captainecho on Jan 23, 2013 18:39:36 GMT -5
I am leaving for China on March 22, and won't be back for a while. Early march is better. and thanks for the offer Matt! After the FOW tourney is over, I'll get in a demo with you. (late February)
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Post by warpriest on Jan 24, 2013 2:05:21 GMT -5
In my experience, it's important to slap on as few restrictions as possible. The more restrictions there are, the less games will be played.
If people are split into two teams, that restricts them to only playing half of the other players. So while it may sound good at first, I don't think teams will work well.
An escalation league can work just fine, again with minimal restrictions. There should not be a requirement that you buy a whole new army (that would definitely keep me out of it), but having incentives for playing fully painted is good. Not a huge incentive relative to just playing the game though. Maybe 5 for a win, 3 for a draw and 1 for a loss, with a 1 point bonus for fully painted. Other bonus points for pulling off in game achievements might be nice as well. For example, only killing the caster could be worth a bonus point. Or destroying every single model.
I think league games should use scenarios (the new SR2013 scenarios?), not just trying to kill the caster.
In the meantime, before the league starts, I think it might be a good idea for two of us to set up a largish game (maybe 50?) that new players can join in on the see how the game works when you go beyond the standard demo, and add in infantry, solos, power attacks, etc.
I don't know what weekend would be best for this though, or if there is even an available weekend before the league would start.
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Post by whitestar333 on Jan 24, 2013 7:39:36 GMT -5
I like the idea of having a large game demonstration! Also featuring a Warmachine vs. Hordes match would make a lot of sense too, so people can see the difference between the two game systems.
I worry that even without the alliance restrictions people might not get games in if their records are high. If you have a huge lead on everyone then fewer people want to play against you (this is the problem with the Mordheim campaign right now). You need some rules and restrictions or else everything stagnates.
I want to make a quick point about scoring points. Despite Warmachine/Hordes appearing like a highly competitive game, there's a lot of support for new players to get into the game, and one of those ways is through their Journeyman Leagues. While I'm not suggesting we run that, there's one thing I really like from the league and that's how the game results earn points. Having 3 points for a win and 2 points for a loss might not seem fair, but what it does is encourage people to play lots of games because, even if you lose, you still earn a good chunk of points. Warmachine/Hordes has a harsh learning curve for some and we want to de-emphasize the sting from losing games as much as possible if we want people to play the game and still have fun. If my team is losing, for example, I might feel guilty playing games if I'm not as great of a player and I'm likely to lose, but if my opponent only gets 1 point extra point for winning that game, then it keeps things closer.
One of the things that makes Warmachine/Hordes such a great game is that even if you've lost most of your army and you feel like you're down, you still have a chance to win (casterkill), where other miniatures games might not have such a strong "comeback" mechanic. I think any League should be set up accordingly so that it can be anyone's game.
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Post by bob on Jan 24, 2013 9:08:56 GMT -5
Strongly agree there. More emphasis on participation than winning games.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Jan 24, 2013 11:40:13 GMT -5
Agree with everything stated above. Few restrictions, and encourage participation... totally about just playing games, not winning.
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Post by hivemindbob on Jan 24, 2013 12:47:23 GMT -5
I'm glad there's some interest out there! So far, after scanning everyone's posting, here's a compact list of what I think the consensus is. If anyone has any opinions, let me know, I'm just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Intro Tournament 15 points "Battlebox" stlye tournament. Decides starting position on pyramid tier escelation league. 1 month rounds, 3 rounds Concluded with a big game? Emphisis on participation?
Sounds about right? Mabye? I'd like to do team play, but the New England team rules confuse me. Whitestar if you could post em up here and maybe the club can help shed some light on them for me? Thanks!
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Post by warpriest on Jan 24, 2013 13:20:27 GMT -5
If there really has to be a pyramid, I think it should just be a visual representation and not restrict who can play who.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Jan 24, 2013 13:34:34 GMT -5
Good list Bobby. I agree with John -- I think we should really gear this towards an intro/participation themed event. Team events, or a pyramid style challenge hierarchy could evolve out of the end of the league, once people are back on a Warmachine high or brushed up on the rules. I would keep the escalation league rules really simple, merely an encouragement to get games in... leave team play and pyramid stuff until later. I would also keep the intro tournament to just battlebox -- it'll be a natural progression into the first 15 point tier of the league, and we already have Matt's format set and ready to go. That's just my two cents
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Post by hivemindbob on Jan 24, 2013 14:18:35 GMT -5
Ok so cut team play and pyramid. So do we wanna start with a battle box move to an escalation then couple it with a 35 pointer at the end?
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Post by warpriest on Jan 24, 2013 15:30:58 GMT -5
Start with a Battle box/ 10 pt beasts/jacks Then Escalation league of 15, 25, and 35 for a month each. Then a 35 pt Steamroller
The first tournament could just be dropped to save time too.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Jan 24, 2013 16:03:37 GMT -5
I like John's set up a lot... exactly what I would do.
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