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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2013 9:53:13 GMT -5
This guy says a lot of my thoughts: lkhero.blogspot.com/2013/03/im-so-sorry-whfb-daemon-players.htmlI don't have a lot of positive thoughts about the new book. The overall vibe is all the existing stuff got weaker and more expensive; the new stuff seems a bit undercosted...go figure. Examples: bloodletters lost a point of str and went up two points; khorne cannon is a t5 scythed chariot that heals itself when it charges and has a fullblown cannon on it that it can fire after moving for less points than 10 bloodletters... I'm disappointed.
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Post by Ben on Mar 5, 2013 10:06:12 GMT -5
That's quite dissapointing to hear and is bad news for fantasy rules development. Bad models, bad book..can't get much worse.
Bloodletters going down in strength yet going up in pts cost? Who though of that? I know the heralds give more abilities now but they can't make up for that. And the skullcannon is just dumb. Awful model and they make it one of the best things in the book so you have to field it to have a good army.
I'd probably set DoC aside for awhile and use another army this book looks so bad..real shame.
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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2013 13:01:57 GMT -5
This will be my official rant thread...the Warpflame special rule is in here in force, just like in WoC...but it's still not flaming. Makes perfectly respectable magic missile spells garbage because it'll be handing out Regen. I've pretty much decided what I'll be using...2 Soul Grinders, a Bloodthirster and some garbage. Either you have enough high Str to deal with it, or you don't. Sorry.
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Post by Ben on Mar 5, 2013 13:36:05 GMT -5
I feel you Bob. It seems like such an awful list. Warpflame is one of the worst rules ever made. Lore of Tzeentch would be pretty good if it wasn't for that stupid spell. I really don't like that soul grinders are in fantasy now but not a bad choice. Fortunetly my WoC have plenty of high strength to deal with those.
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Post by bob on Mar 5, 2013 20:32:44 GMT -5
here's more garbage...several of the loci are pretty good...those are the things you give the heralds that they pass on to their units...khorne heralds can get MR2, frenzy, and hatred...would be fun to beef up a unit pretty good with that, right? but no, they added another useless stupid rule that says only one locus affects a unit. so silly
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Post by Ben on Mar 5, 2013 22:24:54 GMT -5
That means the loci are the same as they use to be with bloodletters worse..lame!
How good are plague drones?
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Post by bob on Mar 7, 2013 16:32:45 GMT -5
2500 LOL-fest
Bloodthirster (2 Greater Gifts...they have the least amount of suck) Herald of Tzeentch (Disc, Lvl 2, Lesser Gift, Lore of Metal) -Tz lore sucks. Metal has some usefulness. I'd drop his Gift for the fun item that gives him +1A and S when he rolls a 5+ anytime he casts or dispels a spell Herald of Khorne (Skullthrone; Lesser Gift; Locus of Wrath -Gives Hatred to all Khorne stuff in 6", plus a pretty spiffy chariot; drop his gift for the +1S KB blade. He's super expensive, but hell so is everything else, might as well embrace it.
44 Bloodletters - Full Command I can't think of any better way to get min Troop requirement. Horrors suck. Plaguebearers are probably more survivable, killier, and cheaper, but they're damned ugly. Nettes still suck.
Soul Grinder of Nurgle -T7, -1 to hit him in melee, sprays Grapeshot around, fast as hell. Might make him Khorne to enjoy the locus from the herald...
2 Skullcannons Fullblown Scythed Chariots with a flaming Cannon that can fire after it moves...ok by me!
5 Fleshhounds 5 Fleshhounds They're still fast, still killy, still W2. Can add Ambushers for some non-linear to mess with folks. Intent though is to stay close to Harold the Herald for Hatred.
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Post by panther on Mar 7, 2013 16:36:50 GMT -5
Bob there's one thing it needs and that is more soulgrinders!
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Post by Ben on Mar 7, 2013 17:25:44 GMT -5
Your old list was so much nicer..good old days. No furies or fiends? Could use some of those. Looks like deamon infantry are not so useful these days and you'll be counting on your skullcannons, soul grinders and greater deamon. At least the bloodletters can get rid of steadfast.
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Post by bob on Mar 12, 2013 10:50:21 GMT -5
The more I look at things, the more I realize the one shining high point (to the point of being overpowered broken cheese) is the Skullcannon...
135 points, M7 S5 T5 W4 3+/5++ Chariot. Cannon can fire after moving. It has mark of Khorne, so S6 impact hits...impact hits which heal it on a 4+. It has two bloodletters there that add a bit to the melee output once engaged.
And the other epiphany, Slaanesh Heralds can take Shadow, right? And they can give ASF to the ladies...so maybe instead of the Tz Herald and the super-expensive Khorne Herald Chariot, I instead take two hordes of Daemonettes with Lvl 2 Heralds.
That should free up enough points to take another unit of Hounds, and have Ambush on all of them. Non-linear movement is potentially huge against some armies!
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Post by Ben on Mar 12, 2013 12:39:38 GMT -5
Yes the skullcannon is stupidly good. I really don't like it in just about every way but I'd take it if I played deamons.
Deffinetly some potential for daemonettes. ASF and mindrazor=nasty.
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Post by bob on Mar 12, 2013 13:02:12 GMT -5
Stymied already, the Slaanesh Heralds only go to Lvl 1
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Post by Ben on Mar 12, 2013 13:20:13 GMT -5
Ugh that's irritating. You'd have to take a lot of heralds to make that work..
Keeper of secrets and a herald?
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Post by bob on Mar 12, 2013 13:31:12 GMT -5
Kos isn't bad, definitely doable as a BT replacement. Nearly as killy, just doesn't fly. More points to bump up to lvl 4, of course. would motivate me to paint the ancient KoS model I've had since about 1991
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Post by Ben on Mar 12, 2013 17:30:07 GMT -5
Lol older than me.
Well L.4 KoS, maybe 2 30 strong deamonette units, herald for each unit, 2 skullcannons, maybe 2 slaanesh chariots, some furies, and hounds. I'm not a Slaanesh fan but that might work..
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