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Post by aetios on Apr 24, 2013 15:30:31 GMT -5
So Brian and I will be playing Vassal again this evening and I am trying to decide between which Cryx list to try. These are what I'm looking at:
List 1 Scaverous (+5) Skarlock Thrall (2) Deathripper (4) Erebus (8) Warwitch Siren (2) The Withershadow Combine (5) Cephalyx Overlords (4) Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls (2) Min Mechanithralls (3) - Brute Thrall (1) Min Mechanithralls (3) -Brute Thrall (1) Min Bile Thralls (5)
I really like the look of this list. It's got a ton of sprays/exploding biles to handle most troop heavy lists, and Erebus/Withershadow/Mechthralls/Brute thralls to handle heavies. The other option for this list is to drop the two Brute thralls and trade the deathripper up to a Ripjaw and Erebus up to a Seether. It loses me Erebus's higher def/arm and soul collecting ability for Scaverous, but gains me easier focus manipulation and better hitting ability.
List 2 eDenny (+6) -Skarlock Thrall (2) -Slayer (6) -Nightwretch (4) -Nightwretch (4) Warwitch Siren (2) Pistol Wraith (3) Pistol Wraith (3) General Gerlak Slaughterborn (3) Min Bloodgorgers (5) Max Mechanithralls (5) Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls (2) Ragman (2)
No sprays for handling troops this time, but it does have the two nightwretch AOEs and Bloodgorgers. Oh yeah, plus Denny's hellmouth spell (one of my favorites). Mechthralls and Slayer to handle heavies, and with ragman possibly bloodgorgers as well.
List 3 pDenny (+5) -Skarlock Thrall (2) -Nightmare (10) -Nightwretch (4) -Nightwretch (4) Warwitch Siren (2) Max Mechanithralls (3) - 2 Brute Thralls (2) Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls (2) Min Bile Thralls (5) Max Black Ogrun Boarding Party (6)
So this uses something I rarely do use - The Black Ogrun. With Denny's debuffs they have some serious potential to mess things up, and even without they can be a nuisance. Having 5 of them really limits charge lanes for enemy jacks too since their medium bases. Mech/Brute Thralls do their thing, and with Denny have a decent chance of hitting anyone. Nightmare... well, he's Nightmare. ;D
Thoughts? Who should I try?
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Post by aetios on Apr 25, 2013 10:01:51 GMT -5
So I went with Scaverous... and died. Part of it was I really screwed myself from the beginning anyway. I had planned on being aggressive, then when it came time for setup I threw that plan out the window, got all cagey and set up horribly. By the end of Turn 1 my units were so tangled up I had no clear direction of running lanes. So that definitely didn't help. My dice were my dice, I really don't expect much from them at this point. I was talking with Brian afterwards and I realized I'm too reliant on the written tricks and not focusing on getting done what needs to be. Lots of people don't like Erebus. Personally, I still think he's a really good jack. I just can't run him with Scaverous (which is one of his main points, I know) because I get so caught up in his soul taking ability I forgo the main reason I have him there there - hit other heavies. I tangled him up so much trying to get him to where he could do either that he died in one swift punch (literally!). I do the same with my Bile Thralls. I'm so hell bent on running them up to explode I get stupid and don't leave enough back far enough to survive long enough to do just that! I have to stop trying so hard to have all my models be the one trick pony they're known for and use them good and proper. Brian is writing a batrep, so he'll explain in greater detail, but in the end the biggest problem was... his Sorscha list is a B****! Next up is Denny. Either that or I'm going back to my favorite caster (though he dies a lot too!) - Terminus!!
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Post by dante on Apr 25, 2013 13:19:07 GMT -5
I have never used scaverous before so I can't help yah out too much there, but those denegra lists i wouldn't mind picking apart.
Just some thoughts for list 2.
The necro surgeon is a waste here. They only bring mechanithralls back to life and even then with 6 thralls you can only return two, so that 2 point unit at best is returning 1, which isn't too great really. Another thing is probably more bias but i just hate Nightwretches, their stats are so poor, they don't shoot very good and they end up eating 2 or more focus a turn for comparatively little returns. Go with deathrippers because nightwretches they aren't really great at killing anything so why have the temptation out there to burn focus. Deathrippers are more killy and your less inclined to waste focus on a lack luster shooting attack. I would also drop the warwitch an pick up grade your slayer into a seether and get a mechanic.
List 3 thoughts I like list 3 but the lack orgun are just a unit i have never really used so i am really curious to hear how they work out for you.
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Post by aetios on Apr 25, 2013 14:12:40 GMT -5
You misread Dante it's a full unit of Mechthralls in list 2, and you can bring back 3 a turn not 2. If it was a min unit I probably wouldn't have him in. As for the Nightwretches I would normally totally agree with you. But with Denny, they have a very solid chance of hitting things. Their measly RAT 5 goes anywhere from a RAT 7 to a RAT 10 (depending on which Denny you're using) with her debuffs. Then I only need 1 focus each to make the AOE.
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Post by dante on Apr 25, 2013 21:52:44 GMT -5
ah good catch i did miss read the unit. Still not really a fan tho haha. Maybe with two units of mecthralls? I know they are great with both dennys.
Now Shooting those two nightwretches put you down 2 focus minimum, then adding the curse of shadows i would assume if your shooting at them, feating and/or marking a unit for death then i mean your just going to be out of focus that turn, so your big power play was shooting two measly nightwretches.
I think the main thought process I'm having is that denny as such a great spell list that i think just bothering to shoot those aoes at all is a bit of a waste. With awesome spells like curse of shadow, ghost walk, marked for death, her feat and pursuit all favor the low mat low rat hordes of pirates and thralls, so if your able to sling 2 or 3 spells a turn your doing something awesome. The skarlock and warwitch mediate this problem some but I think dennys spell list just can't afford to be throwing 2-3 focus to shoot a bit.
Lastly what nightwretches do is done just about better by something else in every way. Our jacks shred other jacks so no need shooting that one shot into jacks, our bile thralls are excellent at killing them hordes, much better than some aoe's and the high defence problem is solved just by using denny.
Id even go as far to say drop the warwitch (i don't like those either! haha), drop a pistol wraith (you don't really need two) change those nightwretches to death rippers and use those extra points for another unit of mechanithralls. Maybe even drop the general troll to upgrade the slayer to a seether, then use the trolls more defensively rather than offensively.
Food for thought, I haven't had a 35 point game in months so my thoughts might be a bit fumbled, forgive me
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 25, 2013 23:13:38 GMT -5
Dante might be onto something... eDenny could be a way for you to run all those crazy undead Pirates, if that was still something you were interested in. She looks well suited to that (the incorporeal Satyxis chicks could be cool as well).
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Post by aetios on Apr 26, 2013 8:27:37 GMT -5
Oh I'd love to run a list of Revenant units combined with Satyxis, unfortunately they're still on my list of units to buy and I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon. Satyxis aren't incorporeal, they're just high DEF and the other ones have magic weapons. But I do agree that pirates with Denny is a great combination. She really makes them great, especially if you can add Captain Rengrave and keep him in their LOS. Then they're RAT 6/MAT 7 before she even debuffs anything. And the cannon... well, let's just say with him and her debuffs the cannon could shoot practically the wings off a fly! eDenny's Marked for Death, Rengrave, and the cannon/ grunt b2b = RAT 10. On Feat turn - RAT 13. Granted, I'd still roll snake eyes to shoot your Winterguard Brian . I get what you're saying about the Nightwretch's Dante. I do want two bonejacks with her, so maybe change one to a Deathripper (both in the pDenny list cause I've got Biles. Part of me says I need some kind of non-magical template with eDenny!). I can see dropping the 2nd pistol wraith at 35 as well. Maybe add him back in at 50. I love the Sirens and need as much focus help as possible IMO with Denny, so I think I'll just change the Slayer to a Seether with that extra from the Pistol Wraith. The only thing I could think to do otherwise with her two points anyway would be to either trade her for 2Brute thralls or another solo - thinking Gorman di Wulfe or Saxon Orrik. Actually... Saxon Orrik might not be a bad thing. Then I can use him to give one of the units pathfinder and not have to worry as much about getting ghostwalk off. So how about this: eDenny (+6) Deathripper (4) Nightwretch (4) Seether (9) Skarlock Thrall (2) Pistol Wraith (3) Saxon Orrik (2) Ragman (2) General Gerlak Slaughterborn (3) Min Bloodgorgers (5) Max Mechthralls (2) Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls (2) I'm short on templates to help kill troops that are immune to magic (i.e. doomreavers, and I'm sure there are others!), but Bloodgorgers are pretty good at killing living troops. I have a decent amount of hitting power, especially with proper positioning of Ragman and with Denny's Curse of Shadows spell. I'm low on troop count for attrition, but if I can keep the Necrosurgeon/Stitch Thralls alive I should be able to balance that a little. I have 5 solos to help contest objectives, one of which has stealth and the other is incorporeal. And I've got 9 medium bases and one large base to help limit trampling Denny to death. Thoughts?
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Post by dante on Apr 26, 2013 16:30:30 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of the direction you brought the list to. 1 nightwretch is better than two i suppose. If you make it have a specific role than i think that's fine. Would still love to see the pirates in there but i understand if you don't have the models. I'm a big fan of saxon.
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