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Post by whitestar333 on May 9, 2013 17:45:51 GMT -5
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Post by RodTheCid on May 12, 2013 7:23:32 GMT -5
Ok, I know that it is rude to answer a question with another question; however I have a couple of them, first, I’m curious on what is the benefit of having timers for a beginner level 25point tournament; second, Is it really important for a novice player to know that he has a limit of time to take another bad decision and not learn anything from it?
I think it would be a good idea to put aside personal preferences and think on what the tournament is really trying to achieve, hence if we really want to start a steady gaming group for Warmachine, and bring more player into it, seems more logical to simplify the step rather than just make it more complicated
Then , I asked again, who is in?
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captainecho
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Post by captainecho on May 12, 2013 7:44:43 GMT -5
I'm in, yay!
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Post by crow2006007 on May 12, 2013 19:35:45 GMT -5
I can be put down as standby(cygnar)
Brandon
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 13, 2013 9:17:40 GMT -5
I'm in!
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Post by bob on May 13, 2013 15:24:13 GMT -5
Ok, I know that it is rude to answer a question with another question; however I have a couple of them, first, I’m curious on what is the benefit of having timers for a beginner level 25point tournament; second, Is it really important for a novice player to know that he has a limit of time to take another bad decision and not learn anything from it? I think it would be a good idea to put aside personal preferences and think on what the tournament is really trying to achieve, hence if we really want to start a steady gaming group for Warmachine, and bring more player into it, seems more logical to simplify the step rather than just make it more complicated Then , I asked again, who is in? Not to answer for him, but I think I understand his point: a) There has to be some kind of function to prevent someone from doing things in game to protract the game out indefinitely...I mean, the game has to end sometime, you can't just let it go on and on and on; b) given there's a limit based on a) above, there has to be some mechanism to prevent one player from eating up the time to prevent the other player from taking his actions; c) and this one is a personal feeling, but SR rules are written with time limits for a reason: that's the way they intend the game to be played. Playing without the time limits is leaving out part of the game. I certainly wouldn't expect new players to be able to play hardcore deathclock crap, but having SOME turn time limit is very appropriate for new folks to learn how the game really works...ie. in the real world of SR tournament play, you don't have all day to think about your turn, you have to get it done. If SR calls for 5 minutes turns at this level, maybe we could do 15 minutes, just so there's SOMETHING there to move you along, and this would cover b) above as well. My $.02
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Post by hivemindbob on May 13, 2013 23:29:31 GMT -5
I'll be there hopefully... Hopefully Running it... As long as I can get off from work.
I understand where both sides of the discussion are coming from. However, I stand with Rod on this one. The purpose of this tournament is to rekindle interest and start new flames of interest in this skirmisher style table top game. This is not a cut throat grand tournament. This is a group of friends in a friendly environment doing something we love to do. As for any of our other tournaments, we have had round limits. Should we start timing the turns in our 40 tournamnets in order to prevent slow play? No. Because it shouldn't occur. Because these are friendly tournaments. To this point, I've been trying to appease everyone with this tournament, however, I'm taking a stand. Please openand read the Sportsmanship Section of the Steamroller 2013 PDF.
If we are following these rules:
"If your opponent is doing something that is making you uncomfortable— stalling, bending the rules, or outright cheating—tell your opponent about it. Explain what he can do to remedy the situation in order to maintain a fair, honest, and fun in-game environment."
Emphisis on the issue of stalling, and the words fair, honest, and fun in-game environment.
This situation will be rectified in a manner used in the world of standardized testing: The suggestion: Because these games are 70 minutes long, turns are meant to be 7 minutes long with a 3 minute extension. At the seven minute mark, I will announce that 7 minutes has passed. This allows players who want to challenge themselves with time restraints to do so, and players who are beginners to have the feel of being timed without any penalties for the learning curve.
Now, this thread is here for people to Sign up for the tournament.
Please forward any of your issues with how it was designed to myself. I'm sorry if this is coming off as brash but the discussions about minute points is overshadowing the purpose: To play in a friendly tournamet and have a good time with friends.
Thank you, Bobby Gavlik, T.O.
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Post by warpriest on May 16, 2013 21:24:33 GMT -5
I would love to say I'm playing, but this was scheduled the same day as my daughter's birthday, so I can't make it. I will be there this Saturday though, if anyone wants some practice.
I would like to say that I hope the more experienced players won't make the newer players regret showing up. The point of this tournament, and hopefully the follow-up league, is the get more people interested in playing.
I wouldn't bother with turn time limits, but announce the time left a few times so no one is surprised by the end of the round. Just rely on this being a friendly tournament and people not intentionally slow playing to try to gain an advantage.
A future tournament could introduce timers, if people have gotten in enough games that they are comfortable with doing that.
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Post by RodTheCid on May 17, 2013 8:32:26 GMT -5
Absolutely, this is only the beginning guys, I know we have more than just a few of WM/H players and we can run lots of exciting events taking this one as an starting point
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Post by Tim on May 18, 2013 16:41:11 GMT -5
Sadly I am working this day and don't think I'll be able to get it off. Have a great time. Somebody win with Trolls for me!
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Post by hivemindbob on May 19, 2013 10:26:28 GMT -5
Stephen and Mike are in as well.
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Post by whitestar333 on May 22, 2013 6:58:21 GMT -5
All great points. I merely suggested death clock because it's simple and easy for a tournament organizer and surprisingly forgiving for new players because they can take as long as they need to think, while being fair to their opponent.
In the spirit of being one of the veteran players making sure everyone has fun, I will warn you guys that I will be bringing the Galleon to the event, just so you aren't all surprised to see a colossal at 25 points. I haven't played with him before so there will be a little bit of a learning curve for me but you should all know that he will show up.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 22, 2013 10:59:15 GMT -5
I don't think that bringing a Colossal is in the spirit of everyone having fun.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Colossals in 25 points as a rule and it's good of you to give prior warning if that's the case. But this isn't a 25 point veterans tournament. Half the field will ostensibly be building their lists from the battleboxes, trying to wrap their heads around the rules for regular warjacks/warbeasts let alone the Huge based models. I don't think running a Colossal (especially one that is regarded as number 1 or 2 out of 9 factions) is very beginner friendly, and the point of the event is to cater to newer players (or guys who haven't touched their armies in over a year). Giving fair warning is gentlemanly, but frankly the people you're warning don't know what a Galleon is (besides you, nobody uses Colossals locally... None of us have ever played against one!) or have any idea how to handle it (when some of these guys are building their first lists, you can't expect them to know what tools they need for Colossals). I would gladly try to tackle Galleon, if I was bringing eSorscha and Behemoth and Great Bears and Iron Flesh Winterguard. But I'm not bringing a list like that; I have a straightforward, simple list with some good models and easily explained abilities. I would urge you to reconsider leaving the Galleon at home... the worst thing that could happen is that you give a newer player an unfun match and turn them off to the entire game system. That doesn't work in anybody's favor; you know how hard it is to get WM/H games at the club as is. Do you really want to risk shrinking that playerbase even more?
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Post by whitestar333 on May 22, 2013 20:19:21 GMT -5
I was just thinking about bringing my Galleon with Fiona because I thought it would be fun to try something completely different. I've been trying to play with my mercenaries this year to try branching out with a new faction and I just wanted to try my big model which I bought because I thought it looked cool and would be fun to play with. I just wanted to bring my giant stompy robot and try it at 25 points (which I don't have a lot of experience playing the points level, honestly). I haven't had a chance to play a game in over a month and I haven't had a chance to try out the Galleon and I was hoping this could be my first chance playing with it. I figured it'd be better to bring the Galleon than any of my other mercenary lists because I figured people could deal with a colossal better than volumes of infantry I would bring otherwise.
If you think that Colossals will turn people off to the game then I guess I'll just sit this one out.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 23, 2013 1:08:05 GMT -5
I'm not putting you down dude, and I mean no disrespect. If you want to stay home, that's your call. If you want to come play Warmachine, you're welcome to do that too. I'm not the TO, and I don't represent the entirety of the player base. Nobody is beholden to me, and nobody is trying to stop you from coming and having fun. If you think playing Galleon is a good call, then ignore me. I don't have any experience with colossals one way or the other, so maybe I'm talking out of my ass. I am concerned that it could be disheartening/unfun for some newer players; as it has tons of damage output and tons of boxes that people may not be prepared to handle (as well as weird rules interactions, like immune to stationary or knockdown). It's an awesome giant stompy robot, and I don't mean to prevent you from trying new things or playing what you want to play... I just think it's important to keep the purpose of the event in mind. I'm not convinced the Galleon is beginner-friendly. If you think otherwise, show up and prove me wrong All things considered, there's been far too much drama on this subforum lately... relax, be an idiot and get a caster killed, have fun
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