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Post by apothecarybob on Jun 6, 2014 15:15:07 GMT -5
The inquisitor thing is a good idea: Lord Commissar, power weapon, carapace armor 85pts ministorum priest 25pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts platoon 308pts platoon command squad, sniper rifle x4 38pts 10 guardsmen, meltagun 60pts 10 guardsmen, meltagun 60pts 50 conscripts 150pts 6 Scions, flamer, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 187pts 7 Scions, meltaguns x 2, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 214pts 7 Scions, meltaguns x 2, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 214pts 2 wyverns 130pts
Inquisition Coteaz 100pts Ordo Hereticus inquisitor, power armor, psyocculum, tome of vethric, servo-skulls x 3level 1 psyker 117pts 2000pts Lots of bodies, lots of scoring. Could get a 4++ on the conscripts to make them tough as nails
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 6, 2014 17:06:14 GMT -5
i really like the idea of scions i just dont know how to use them. I almost want to say dont be afraid to deepstrike with them or drop them from a valkyrie since even though they lost the reroll scatter die from the last book they have move through cover rules and automatically passes dangerous terrain tests.
I am also confused on if you can take a detachment from the MT codex. Take the list you have from above. You can use that same exact list and just take an allied detachemnt from the miltarum tempest book and also benefit from the militarum tempest orders and objective secured on not only the AM veteran squads but Objective secured on the scions squads as well. I also like the MT orders for scions as well. Rending, sniper/pinning, twinlink, preferred enemy, Crusader, fleet.
The only problem i see from the above is i think some tournaments will limit battleforge lists to 1 detachment. So having both an inquisitoral detachment (which doesnt count as an ally detachment) and MT ally detachment might not always work of course for those tournaments you can just use the same list with AM scions but lose the Objective secured on the scions and have AM orders instead on your tempestor prime. (ps dont forget a tempestor prime scion chosen from the MT book can only issues orders to non vehcile units chosen from that book and the Platoon commander can only issue orders to units from the AM book. Unless of course all units are chosen from AM book)
Ideally an AM primary with MT allied detachment and an Inqusitoral ally is the best setup for that list. And your list kinda scares me with all that heavy shooting and everything having objective secured. Its also fast and and mobile, is strong vs psykers and demons, has servo skulls to limit infiltrators, deep strike, or scouts (they can even help with scatter if you use the frag missles with your tauroox however those are bs 4 so not really the main concern for the servo skulls). You lack anti air, but you can probably still win by simply ignoring it and just forcing jink saves with mass snap shots that will cause the flyers to snap shot as well. Cortez himself will just make massive shots at flyers everytime one flys within 12in of him. And the great thing about inqusitor psykers is that your lord commissar will not kill them if they get perils and are in the same group. "Its for your own good" is a rule on the AM psykers not on the commissar.
If i had any feedback on this list (other then making the 6 scions into a command squad) its why the tome of venthric? it only gives mild bonuses to the bearer not his unit and costs 20 points. i'd prolly just use the points to make that squad of 6 scions into a tempestus command squad with 4 special weapons so your prime can issue orders.
Lots of bodies, lots of Command orders and decent amount of psykic powers (aka divination probably and 6 transports with objective secured (The 7th should be a command squad)additionally 10 troop units with objective secured. Your lord commissar (aura of leadership and summary execution as well), cortez, and heretic inquistor are all ld 10 stubborn, your priest gives fearless and a tempestor prime command sqaud is ld 9 with a clarion vox net that allows all scion units within 18in to use his ld9. So pretty much a very rare chance to fail leadership tests. Youre not going to be blowing up the assault phase either, but you have a few force weapons and power weapons mixed in there and a priest which may help if you are caught in a jam. You can always play with this list and mix some heavy flamers into it instead of all melta's but as scary as str5 ap4 template weapons are and they do mix well with the short range of melta weapons I am not so sure its an improvement. Im scared to face this list even with all my anti infantry in my list because i need to pop transports to get to thier contents first. So tell me when your done putting together your 130+ infantry and 7 transports and i'll play you =P
Edit-If you do happen to roll forewarning (4++ in divination) and its on your conscripts. Use them like i plan to as a giant screen for your other units forcing your opponent to either shoot your 4++ 50 man squad of conscripts or shoot over them at the units they are providing cover for behind them which will get a 5+ cover save from being over 25% obscured. You will probably not do this for your taurox primes since those bad boys are fast vehciles and will be speeding past your conscript blob.
One other question. Which squad you plan to camp your home objective the PCS w 4 snipers? Are the two 10 man guard squads w melta weapons going to blob up and chill there as well to receive commands? Maybe exchange the meltagun for autocannon for long range support or if you want to keep them mobile the meltagun/plasamgun is fine.
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 6, 2014 21:10:37 GMT -5
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Post by apothecarybob on Jun 7, 2014 8:23:45 GMT -5
Firstly, I do like that model, though it has a Belial feel to it more than a inquisitor. Second, your points are well thought out and very valid. I usually make my lists to fit tournament standards because they (the tournaments) generally have a good idea of how to limit cheesey-ness/too many books to use. I probably wouldn't use that list due to the inquisitors giving very mild help in the long run (BS10 against psykers is awesome, but only so against GK and Daemons really, everything else gets 0-5, plus lasguns only go so far even with 2s to hit).
This is the list I would more likely run because of the MT orders and OS scions:
Lord Commissar, power weapon, carapace armor, melta bombs 90pts ministorum priest 25pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts platoon 280pts platoon command squad 30pts 10 guardsmen 50pts 10 guardsmen 50pts 50 conscripts 150pts 2 wyverns 130pts devil dog, hull multi-melta 145pts 6 Scions, flamer, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 187pts
Militarum Tempestus Lord Commissar, power weapon, carapace armor, melta bombs 90pts 7 Scions, meltaguns x 2, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 214pts 7 Scions, meltaguns x 2, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 214pts 1995pts
With 5pts left over I can get a meaningless upgrade to some vehicle (relic plating?)
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 7, 2014 9:09:13 GMT -5
I agree I have a feeling tournaments will limit armies to 1 codex and 1 ally or other detachment. But if you make that list you can play it either way since you can take te scions from am. The psycillum is decent because it's not just bs a psyker it's versus any unit that contains a psyker. Facing a guard list with a primaris in a blob that whole blob is hit at bs10. I guess it depends how prevelent psykers are in 7th. But it's not just useful vs demons and grey knights. Eldar and some semi decent psyker armies like IG as well.
If your worry is tournaments id like to see how most tournaments handle inquisitors and knights. But I agree with you if a choice on tempest and inquisitors. Tempests win due to objective secured on most units and transports but I'd play someone using a single ally and a knight or inquisitor
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Post by apothecarybob on Jun 8, 2014 8:04:55 GMT -5
they handle them like how they handle allies in general, at least from my experience. You're only allowed 1 allied detachment
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Post by bob on Jun 9, 2014 9:19:14 GMT -5
NOVA will most likely be allowing one CAD and one other detachment. RAW interpretation of not being able to ally with on Faction will be used, though some supplements explicitly override this (eg Farsight gives explicit permission to ally with 'normal' Tau).
Last I spoke with him, ConnectiCon will be allowing two detachments, including two CAD if you choose to.
Frontline and BAO just had some polls where it looks like the NOVA style will be used over there too.
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 11, 2014 22:01:22 GMT -5
If your building to tournaments do we know how those missions are planned? Maelstrom missions seem to benefit a much more mobile list which give Vps each turn making the AM/MT list very good.
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 11, 2014 23:35:29 GMT -5
Firstly, I do like that model, though it has a Belial feel to it more than a inquisitor. Second, your points are well thought out and very valid. I usually make my lists to fit tournament standards because they (the tournaments) generally have a good idea of how to limit cheesey-ness/too many books to use. I probably wouldn't use that list due to the inquisitors giving very mild help in the long run (BS10 against psykers is awesome, but only so against GK and Daemons really, everything else gets 0-5, plus lasguns only go so far even with 2s to hit). This is the list I would more likely run because of the MT orders and OS scions: Lord Commissar, power weapon, carapace armor, melta bombs 90pts ministorum priest 25pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts veteran squad, meltaguns x3, chimera w/ hull heavy flamer 155pts platoon 280pts platoon command squad 30pts 10 guardsmen 50pts 10 guardsmen 50pts 50 conscripts 150pts 2 wyverns 130pts devil dog, hull multi-melta 145pts 6 Scions, flamer, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 187pts Militarum Tempestus Lord Commissar, power weapon, carapace armor, melta bombs 90pts 7 Scions, meltaguns x 2, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 214pts 7 Scions, meltaguns x 2, taurox prime w/ taurox missile launcher, TL autocannon 214pts 1995pts With 5pts left over I can get a meaningless upgrade to some vehicle (relic plating?) I do like the idea of your list but I thought a scion command squad aka tempestor prime is the only one able to issue mt orders.
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Post by apothecarybob on Jun 12, 2014 6:46:22 GMT -5
Yeah you are right, I forgot that I didn't put a command squad in after reading your comment about the MT orders being good haha
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 12, 2014 13:54:07 GMT -5
NOVA will most likely be allowing one CAD and one other detachment. RAW interpretation of not being able to ally with on Faction will be used, though some supplements explicitly override this (eg Farsight gives explicit permission to ally with 'normal' Tau). Last I spoke with him, ConnectiCon will be allowing two detachments, including two CAD if you choose to. Frontline and BAO just had some polls where it looks like the NOVA style will be used over there too. There still is alot of confusion on how they are handling things. I know BAO considers the Militarum Tempest as a supplement and thus can be part of the Primary CAD. Unless I am somehow majorly confused, which is entirely possible this still means you are able to have an allied detachment aka Inqusitor or greyknights if you want. This post gives a detailed explanation on it. natfka.blogspot.com/2014/06/writing-40k-list-for-7th-ed-40k-and-bao.htmlSince ConnectiCon or NOVA is likely the tournaments we are interested here. The way CAD are written Militarum Tempest and Astra Militarum can be chosen for one CAD since they have the same faction (according to BAO) and you can still have an Allied CAD. I have however heard conflicting reports how the Militarum Tempest is considered. Some people think its a seperate faction like Inqusition or Knights and some think its the same faction as Astra Militarum. Space Marines get into different situations because of Army Tactics further delineate but the BAO considers Legion of the Damn the same faction as Space Marines and thus you could build one CAD using both those books. You very well may be able to take a MT/AM primary CAD and an Allied Inqusition or knights CAD if you wanted to mos tournaments.
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Post by bob on Jun 13, 2014 9:34:48 GMT -5
MT is not a supplement of AM, it is a separate Faction defined explicitly as such in its codex.
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Sam
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Post by Sam on Jun 13, 2014 12:00:48 GMT -5
I tend to agree with you however BAO according to thier rules in thier post explicitly state MT is the same faction and a supplement of AM and thus you can choose any units in those books in one CAD for their tournament. And they consider Legions of the Damned the same faction and a supplement of Space marines codex. However I have no intention of flying to the Bay area to participate in thier tournament so the only tournaments rules I really need to worry about is Connecticon and Nova if i ever finish painting 2k points of IG and NOVA is still up in the air and as of last post seems to be leaning to a double CAD like connecticon. whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2014/06/is-double-cad-actually-bad.html#comment-form However the question of is MT the same faction and a supplement or a seperate faction and codex remains to be answered for those tournaments. I do agree with you if i were making the decision i would say its a seperate faction and not a codex supplement because even if the BRB doesnt list them as a seperate faction the MT codex clearly does. Not sure why BAO considers them a seperate faction and supplement.
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