captainecho
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Post by captainecho on Apr 23, 2013 21:33:08 GMT -5
This game is awesome.
From the small demo I had with Brian some time ago, and the chance i had to read through Bob's book, I'm sold.
Hordes has beautiful models, lower cost than 40k, a more elegant set of rules and guidelines for play (much like a game of chess) and fewer pieces to move around the table. I like the Hordes fury mechnic better than the focus for warmachines.
An so to the purchase. I see I can buy a starter box with Circle and Everblight together on amazon for about 75 dollars....or I can get it from privateer press for 100....
Is the Everblight starter box filled with the same stuff as what comes in the Hordes starter? I think so...minus the book???
I'm torn between the two factions. And need help deciding.
Everblight - The models are gorgeous, and they are soooo awesomely evil. From what I've read they are a glass cannon kind of army, heavy hitters, straightforward play, easy to use for a beginner. I'm unfamiliar with game balance, or which factions are considered "the best" but this seems like a good solid army.
Circle - Relys on movement tricks and annoying dickery...which sounds an awful lot like my beloved armored car army. And if there is a way for me to bring that kind of play style to a new game system and annoy more people (particularly bobby) I am sorely tempted. the models look as cool, but I don't like the default color scheme as much as Everblight. The fluff is also very "league of shadows" esque. I like the idea of being a behind the scenes eco-terrorist.
I also was curious, of the regular players in the club, who has which army..Not that I will automatically pick what another player doesn't have, but I tend to like playing something new or unpopular. I like the underdog.
So far I think it reads thusly....
Sean - Menoth Brian - Khador (communists) Eric - Cygnar Bob the great and powerful - Skorne and Legion Bobby - Cryx Matt - Cygnar and Circle Rod - Cryx Mikey - Cryx and Khador(stolen from Bobby most likely, cause Mikey can't finish painting things....) Grady - Midwar Germans Jason - Cryx + Gators Dante - Cryx Stephen - Menoth Tom L. - Cryx Ian - Cryx Dan - A man for all seasons
If I missed someone or got your army wrong, chime in, I'm curious.
any advice you can give is appreciated!
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Post by bob on Apr 23, 2013 21:54:50 GMT -5
I only have Skorne and Legion
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Post by RodTheCid on Apr 23, 2013 22:29:54 GMT -5
wait a minute... yes I admit... I'm cool but I have also a Warmachine 35 point Cryx army
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Post by dante on Apr 23, 2013 23:13:37 GMT -5
i gotta 100 n something points running around of cryx. And not gonna lie i laughed at the grady thing hahaha
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 24, 2013 1:27:22 GMT -5
WM/H is definitely different to 40k... I love how big and cinematic 40k can feel, and the fiction is stronger imo. But from a gameplay perspective, WM/H has been a brilliant change of pace lately. But welcome to the dark side Focus vs. Fury is an interesting dynamic -- the factions are very well balanced between each other, Fury being more risk management while Focus is resource management. Fury is a bit more flexible, and I've been tempted to start a second faction to experience the other half of the game. Mikey plays Khador as well, and Matt also has a pretty sizable Circle collection if I remember correctly. Bob's too busy kicking ass with daemons to buy more Warmahordes stuff... and just in case you were wondering, Sean still beats all of us at this game too From what I've read about Circle (I've been flirting with them as a second force), they can be pretty unforgiving -- a steep learning curve, which requires a very strong grasp on the rules, models, order of activation, etc. Another thing that makes them tougher for a beginner is the diversity of models that work with different warlocks. That's definitely a good thing, but can be tricky if you're working with a limited budget -- there are two types of warbeasts (Wolds, and living guys like the Wolves and Satyrs) which tend to be compatible with different warlocks, and different 'locks tend to prefer different infantry (or different ratios of beasts to infantry). That can make it hard to buy an easy "core" of models to work well with several casters, unless you already have a good understanding of the faction and what will work with who. Or maybe I'm spoiled, as the Khador stuff is pretty consistent across warcasters. On the plus side, they have awesome shenanigans (teleportation, moving enemy models) and they're cannibalistic pagan eco-terrorists. I love the aesthetic. Legion is regarded as one of the stronger factions in the game, and I agree that they seem to be a bit more straightforward as a beginner army. They have some really solid warbeasts, strong infantry, amazing Fury management (which makes it a little more forgiving), and some really different warlock options. Legion is one of the best factions in the game for running big nasty monsters. While some models can be glass hammers, there are tons of defensive buffs to make your monsters very hard to handle. It's not all blunt face-beatery, they have some cool movement shenanigans and tricky spells that give you plenty of options. Blighted evil dragons are hard not to like. Obviously my comparison was pretty heavily weighted towards Legion I think they're a little more straightforward for a beginner, I think they'll be a little cheaper on the wallet, and I think they're dastardly and evil and you'll like that. The Legion Battle Box does NOT have the same contents as the two player battle box. It only comes with Lylyth, the Shredders, and the Carnivean. The two player box also comes with the five plastic Ogruns, and a copy of the book. It's cheaper to buy the two player starter set and use the Circle Orboros miniatures as paperweights than to buy the Legion battle box, the rulebook, and the Ogrun unit separately. Definitely opt for the two player set, and see if someone else wants the Circle stuff (like Stephen... or me, I love Circle!). If you're looking to expand, I'd recommend the Forsaken solo, the Shepherd Solo, another plastic Heavy Warbeast box (if you magnetize the arms for this guy and the Carnivean in the starter set, if gives you tons of flexibility in which two warbeasts you can run), and the Ogrun Warspear Chieftain unit attachment. That plus the content of the starter box is enough for a 35 point army. If you sell the Circle stuff off, this would cost: $50 (starter) + $35 (Heavy warbeast kit) + $10 (Shepherd) + $8 (Forsaken) +$19 (Warspear Chief) < $125, from Privateer Press. Easily under $100 if you order online. That's a good note for anyone interested in taking the plunge -- you can get a solid force for about $100, and Warmachine scales down very well. Even playing for a few years, I can have a blast playing the basic, entry level 15 point games where you can use your battlebox and an added solo or small unit. All the rules for your models come from in the form of cards that come with the miniatures, so no need to buy the army book or card deck if you don't want (PP also have a smartphone app that gives you access to all your faction cards, updated with new releases... $7 per faction?). When learning the game, it's important to start small -- spending a few weeks on battle box/15 point games is a really key way to learn the rules, and get used to the pace of the game. From there, grow slowly to 25 points to start experimenting with units... growing too quickly and diving head first into a full 35 point match makes it harder than figuring things out at a lower points level. And you certainly aren't sacrificing any fun. Rambling a bit, but I'm excited. Hoping to get plenty of Warmahordes gaming in this summer when I'm back from school!
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Post by Dr Carnivean on Apr 24, 2013 6:17:31 GMT -5
Oh no Evil Bob would never play Trollbloods (who are surprisingly the big good guys in Hordes) I think Mikey has Cryx (or at least he was using them in the tourny back in April '11. maybe those were his brother's) Chris (Snapple) plays Khorne if I recall I play Cryx and gators, but only on vassal with you guys, and not lately. I need to do more of that again
As to your dilemma, I would do both to start. It's not nearly the cost commitment of the GW games, and if you're buying the starter with the two of them you have the beginnings of both armies. I've heard the same thing as Brian that Circle is really hard to make competitive, which is too bad because I think their fluff and models are awesome. You could do Legion as your 'short game' faction with Circle as your 'long game' since they appeal the most to you in theme and game play. I would play Legion to be competitive early (Bob will definitely be able to steer you in a good direction there) while playing around with Circle to find what works for you and how to make them work as you learn the system and get better with the game
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Post by hivemindbob on Apr 24, 2013 7:17:23 GMT -5
The 2 player battle box includes everything that the starter kit has, minus the unit. So you get a caster, a couple of light beasts, a heavy beast and that's it, or for the 2 player box, you get an additional unit. Stephen has Menoth but is looking to switch over to Circle, and Mike "Has" Khador, Unpainted Orks and unpainted Orcs. I know Warmachine is getting a spiffy new army, one that I intend on picking up, just for fun at least, and they have Retribution. But if your looking to play Hordes, Power to you, the choice is yours. I also like the 2 player battle box because it happens to belike 25 points (?). Which seems to be what we are shooting for in may.
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captainecho
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Post by captainecho on Apr 24, 2013 7:18:20 GMT -5
You've gotta love someone whose advice is "yeah, get all of it." Jason, I really need to meet you in person, I think we'd get along great I edited my original post to show the things people have. Weeee And as usual thank you for the thoughtful reply Mr. Fox, Its the kind of analysis I have trouble finding from student papers here in Brewster.
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Post by aetios on Apr 24, 2013 7:38:15 GMT -5
I have Cryx as well, and Ian has Cryx plus his My Little Pony army (not sure if he has any other ones).
I have to echo Jason's sentiment. Get em both! At least for now. Buy the two player battlebox, and start by trying both armies. I would suggest get your first few games in with the Legion models to learn the rules better, then move on to trying a few games with the Circle ones. This will help lesson the learning curve of Circle I think. From there you can decide which faction you like better and sell the other one to someone in the club, or ebay if no one wants it.
I have to say I'm enjoying WarmaHordes much more than 40k these days. While there are definitely some factions that are regarded as stronger or weaker, every one of them has a viable chance of beating the other. For example, I have always wanted to start a Thornfall Alliance army because I think giant, mutated, pissed off pigs running around the table is hilarious. And one of the casters is a schizophrenic. But they are highly regarded as the weakest army in the game largely due to the few amount of units available. But that doesn't mean they can't beat anyone. You just have to play smarter to do it. Also unlike 40k, when PP does an update to their game they update all the factions at one time. It may take longer for certain models to come out than others, but the rules are normally available long before the models (for example the Colossal/Gargantuan models).
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captainecho
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Post by captainecho on Apr 24, 2013 9:17:13 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, I think I will take on both, and see where it takes me. Why is Cryx so popular? is it just a really competative army? are the models that much cooler?
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Post by aetios on Apr 24, 2013 9:43:33 GMT -5
Haha I liked Cryx for two reasons. 1) I had been playing Dark Elves at the time and was really enjoying an evil themed army. 2) The model for Nightmare. That one model alone sold me to them. Before I started actually playing the game I was torn between Hordes or WM. If I had gone Hordes I would've run Skorne. Dragons, wolves... almost every game has some version of them. Giant mutated elephants?? That's pure awesome in my book. Oh yeah, my last name's an L not a P. Not that it matters as we're the only two Tom's in the group as far as I know, but just so you know.
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Post by hivemindbob on Apr 24, 2013 11:43:53 GMT -5
Cryx have always had some very competitive elements, such as many of their jacks being super focus efficient, and their raw speed. I kinda fell into them when mike signed up for a Warmachine Tournament when I was at camp, bought like 3 models from some guy, realized he didn't like the army and I purchased it at a reduced price from him. Now not to sound like a hipster here but, "I was playing Warmachine before it was cool" Back at the old Hobbytown location, when I was still fairly new to the club, the guys started playing fantasy in preparation for the upcoming fantasy campaign "The Forsaken Vale" Now I had yet to buy my tomb king army off of Eric at the time and was sitting there all confused like with my 40K stuff. Now Ian was there with his Cryx and he was painting Skorne and he had his Cygnar battle force, and he was looking to teach someone how to play Warmachine. Bob suggests, "How bout you learn a new game?" And I did. I sat there and fumbled through a 15 point game as Cygnar, while Ian flew up the Field with his Cryx. He pulled out the Deathjack model that I was thoroughly impressed by. At this point I thought to myself, "Wow if we played this game more often I'd definitely pick up one of those." Well lo and behold Here we are in 2013, like a year and a half to two years of Warmachine, and I still own no Deathjack. Life is funny sometimes isn't it?
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Post by bob on Apr 24, 2013 12:17:11 GMT -5
Cryx is popular because it's full of overpowered cheese! Like Daemons and Mid-war Germans! Don't buy shit to start with. You've got about 100 point sof Legion stuff in my bag, knock yourself out. If I play, it will be with Skorne. Use my stuff as long as needed to get an idea of what you want to buy...try before you buy! As for "play-style" with Legion, there isn't one. So many casters can take you so many different ways...but Saeryn is the caster to look at, IMO. Read this: battlecollege.wikispaces.com/The whole thing. All of it. Every word. Read it again. Yes, it's a lot. And this is why I'm not digging WM/H...you have to know EVERYTHING that your enemy is capable of doing to account for it. You don't know who your enemy is going to be, or what he's going to be bringing, so you have to know it all. Otherwise get ready for, "Ok, I use my feat, and this guy uses his special power and now this guy ignores your whole army and walks over here and kills your caster. Good game. Want to go again?"
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Post by Dr Carnivean on Apr 24, 2013 19:32:53 GMT -5
This is a fun thread - I want to respond to everybody! I know Warmachine is getting a spiffy new army, one that I intend on picking up, just for fun at least, Cool - do they have pics or details yet? The model for Nightmare. That one model alone sold me to them. LOL that’s exactly what made me choose them too! Oh look, it’s threatening a small child. Must. Play. Most evil. Army. You've gotta love someone whose advice is "yeah, get all of it." Jason, I really need to meet you in person, I think we'd get along great Actually I’m laughing because here Aetios and I are telling you to go hog wild and it looks like we’ve bought a combined 10 models since January. And then you look at the sig line of the one saying to hold off buying anything.. Okay, we'll let that go just because you're the club president Don't buy shit to start with. Hey how come you get to swear on here?? Oo I'm a fancypants administrator, I can use real curse words! Xenos. I feel the same way as Bob a lot of times about the gameplay. I kind of have a love-hate thing with the whole assassination angle myself. I love it because it’s different than other games and you have to think differently, but at the same time, unless you really know all of the factions and units and special rules, you have trouble just surviving till turn 3. I’ve lost a ton of games at the top of turn 2, and it gets maddening because you feel like you didn’t even get to play the game. I almost think it’s the most fun when you have two newbies because then at least you know you’ll be playing for awhile before someone wins Another option for playing before buying is Vassal. I think they did a really great job with the warmahordes module. The unit models are really spiffy looking.
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Post by bob on Apr 24, 2013 20:16:39 GMT -5
Interesting...I didn't know others couldn't curse. Amusing! I have no filter, my kids will confirm this. Ian called his sister a B!tch last weekend.
Good call on Vassal. Try before you Buy!
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