sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 16:57:59 GMT -5
(210) – Battle Standard Bearer Asator: Barded Steed, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Protection, Book of Secrets, Shield, Flail (226) - Exalted Sorcerer Omnos: Level 2, Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll, MoN, Steed (36) - 6x Warhounds (130) - 20x Marauders, MoS, Shields, Light Armor (220) - 12x Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shields, Banner, Musician (220) - 12x Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shields, Banner, Musician (81) - 5x Marauder Horsemen, Musician, Throwing Spears, Shields (240) - 5x Chaos Knights, Musician, Mark of Khorne (135) – 3x Chaos Trolls Total: 1597 This is what I'm thinking of bringing on Monday to take on Eric's Lizardmen. A brief history, my first incarnation of this list had 15-strong Warrior blocks and another unit of Marauder Horsemen. I'm taking Bob's advice and trying some smaller Warrior units to see what happens, also to free up some points. I really wanted/needed another heavy hitting unit besides my Khorne knights, so I added the Chaos Trolls to the mix. I looooove the trolls, I have no clue if they're any good but I want to try them General tactic: Marauders/Trolls in the center of my deployment, with the Warrior units on the outside to flank/prevent enemy flankers. The Marauder Horsemen will stall the enemy on one flank while the Knights cover the other, lurking in a fashion to try and get a flank charge. The Warhounds will act as "blinders" for my Knight's frenzy so they don't go off charging targets I don't want them to, it's worked so far but we'll see what happens. I have to keep one of my characters with the trolls for stupidity, and I'd like to ride one with the Chaos Knights. However, I don't want Omnos to get stuck in combat. We'll see what happens in deployment. For those with the WoC book (Bob and Jason), the only real thing I'm considering as of now is the equipment on Asator. I'm debating on dropping a Warhound or two and the Sword of Might, and then giving Asator the Book of Secrets + a flail. It gives him some extra, limitted spellcasting abilities which could give me a slightly stronger presence in the magic phase. 3 in the pool (hooray for familiar!), 2 for Omnos and 1 for Asator gives me 6 PD which is pretty good in a small list like this. I don't care so much about the miscast risk I think the benefits outweigh the risks.
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Post by Dr Carnivean on Apr 16, 2009 17:35:05 GMT -5
I think the book of secrets is definitely worth swapping out the sword of might and a few hounds for. He's already Str 5, so I think that's good for a 1500 game with no dragons, griffons, manticores, steam tanks, etc to have to worry about, and for what you use them for, 5 hounds is as good as 8. Trolls are fun. Keep the general and bsb around nearby and stupidity shouldn't bother you too badly.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 17:40:30 GMT -5
Eric has a Stegadon I'm hoping my Knights/Trolls will be able to cause enough damage, or that my magic will cause some serious problems (I could just Bubo him to death with the MoN ). In any case, I don't want to metagame or set up a list designed purely to kill his so I'm making it rather generic. Pumped to use the trolls, I'm gonna have to proxy them though :/ Aight, I'll see what Bob thinks but I'm leaning towards the extra magical prowess. I'm guessing Lore of Fire/Death, at the very least I can snatch up a fun Magic Missile type spell or get some cool buffs like sword of Rhuin. If my guy was on foot I'd go for the Lore of Shadow, it's the sneakiest way to essentially give your model a free fly move/charge which is AWESOME!
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Post by Dr Carnivean on Apr 16, 2009 17:47:13 GMT -5
Hmm I hadn't considered the stegadon, but I think it's toughness 5 so your Str 5 on the bsb and the knights will still give you the ability to hurt it fairly easily. The nice thing about having the extra caster is it's one more thing that can cast spells, so that none of your power dice are going to waste. You have more options, especially if one of the spells you roll for your level two isn't very useful in the battle. I would look at the 1st spell from each of those three lists and see which would be the most useful. I think the first shadow spell might be a movement one, which would be useless for the mounted caster, so you may want to stick with fire or death
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 17:53:21 GMT -5
Hm, very good points. I'll avoid the Lore of Shadow, both the first tier spells for Fire and Death are magic missiles. I'll have to check them both out a little more, but unless I find some serious opposition I'm gonna switch it.
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Post by bob on Apr 16, 2009 19:10:57 GMT -5
The Ancient Stegadon has T6 with 3+AS...you'll want higher than S5.
The COKs have 2+AS...you'll probably want more than S5 for them, too.
The book is absolutely not worth the risk. I would take the sword with no hesitation. I like my melee fighters in melee able to fight, not dancing around trying to act like wizards while wasting their melee stats.
Remember the BSB can't help the trolls Stupid tests, BSB only allows reroll on Break tests, not all Ld tests.
With a Ld8 General, expect your trolls to be stupid on 2 turns. A character in the unit will be affected by their stupidity. I like trolls, but be aware of the odds.
Your hard troops should suffer little from low-Str shooting, and be a match for big saurus blocks. The big stegasaurus will be difficult to deal with, especially if it charges something.
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Post by Dr Carnivean on Apr 16, 2009 19:27:36 GMT -5
Toughness 6 Stegadon - that's pretty nice, and it does change things as far as the sword of might goes. I still like your idea of the book, but with a T6 beast out there you may want to stick with the sword of might. Didn't realize BSB only helps with break tests - I don't think I'd ever used one before (maybe in the beasts army) Good to know though before I start using one in the CoW army I'm putting together.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 20:04:03 GMT -5
Mhm, I was thinking of keeping the BSB with the Trolls (should be in the middle of everything, so they all should benefit from the flag). I know Stupidity is a risk, but the Trolls are fairly cheap and the regen rule just looks like so much fun. If I run them without a character, their stupid for most of the time though right? Maybe I'll toss the sorcerer in with them, as Stupidity doesn't affect spellcasting (I hope?). I'll put the sword back on my BSB though, looks like I'm going to need it... ugh... how many wounds does this Stegadon fellow have? He's gonna be a PITA to take down (I'm praying for that cool quagmire spell so I can just suck him into the ground turn 1 ) What are COK's?
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Post by bob on Apr 16, 2009 20:31:54 GMT -5
All units can use the General's Ld for Ld-based tests when he's within 12", so just keep the General close.
Cold One Knights...mean Lizardmen with spears on Cold Ones (kind like Velocipaptors). They're Stupid too, but get to use 3 dice and take the 2 lowest (lizardman special rule).
I'm very opposed to the book. The guy gets only one die, so won't be casting much anyway...he's a melee guy, so should be melee'ing instead of casting (or you've wasted points!)...if he uses pool dice, he's robbing them from real wizard, and if he miscasts the results will be bad, costing you more points than the one silly spell might have gained you.
I might see the book on someone that's already a wizard when you've got the Puppet in the army, but otherwise I think it's not worth it's points.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 20:38:20 GMT -5
Okay, all sounds good then. I'll probably switch over back to the Sword then, very good points on the book.
Last big question: I'm pretty confident about almost everything in Eric's list, but the Stegadon still scares me. How many wounds does it have? And how should I go about killing it and it's stupid Burning Alignment?
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Post by bob on Apr 16, 2009 21:18:51 GMT -5
If you kill the skink priest on top (i think t3 with w2 and 2+as) he can't use the magic powers of the EoG anymore. Get in melee, kill it, easy enough even for weakish things like dogs or horsemen.
Wounds from Buboes will have to be randomized between the skink crew, the character, and the steg.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 21:23:52 GMT -5
Really? I thought Bubo wounds let me pick exactly which model I wanted to kill... interesting. I'll check it out. But if I get into combat, I can designate all my attacks against the priest? Shouldn't be too hard. Hell, my Marauder Horsemen stand a good chance on the charge. On another note, I'm going to need troll models (or models like trolls on troll sized bases ) to proxy, as I don't have anything that would work. Would anyone be willing to lend me a hand please?
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Post by bob on Apr 16, 2009 21:26:42 GMT -5
Buboes does let you target the model, but not the sub-parts of the model. Refer to WFB FAQ/Errata #2, see Rule of Burning Iron question.
I have trolls, no problem.
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 16, 2009 21:48:53 GMT -5
Ah, now I see. Curses, my plan has been foiled! I better start praying for Quagmire then Alright, thanks a ton! I still can't stomach that it's $22 for ONE freaking troll. That's almost $70 for a minimum sized unit, I could almost get an entire battalion for that price.
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Post by bob on Apr 17, 2009 9:34:20 GMT -5
The BFSP trolls are plastic and can be found on ebay for reasonable sometimes...that's what I have.
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