|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 6, 2012 14:50:18 GMT -5
I was taking steadfast into account - that's why I said they could probably break 30 on the charge but would need help or good rolling breaking more. If ranked in fives, a unit would need to have at least 20 models to have steadfast against the 3 rank chariot unit. They should cause an average of 8 wounds with -2 to save on stuff Str 4 or lower just from the impact hits they do at full strength, and between the two characters they should be able to average out at least 2 more after everything is said and done. Of course, with Step Up, a unit could do damage back and get steadfast with 15+ models if they manage to destroy a chariot, and in a bad round of rolling, the chariots may not be able to bring them down that far. Then again, with everything in the unit using the tomb king's WS it makes it a little harder to get wounds against them, so that helps. Basically it depends on what kind of unit they're trying to charge. Obviously if they're charging 30 chaos warriors that will still have a 5+ save on the impact hits and will be able to deal out good damage in return, they're going to still be steadfast (and especially if there's a character in there) but a unit that nasty I would never try to charge with the just chariots anyway unless I could afford to be there a turn or two. That's why I would want the two warsphinxes screening the chariot unit at least for the first few turns is so that it could either tandem charge to make sure they break the unit, or to take the countercharge if they end up getting stuck for a turn. The high toughness of the sphinx and the BSB and the construct rule reducing the combat resolution damage by 2 would make the warsphinx hard to destroy on a charge just from static, but a powerful enough unit might be able to. Again, it kind of depends on the units and the situation involved. That's why it's so tough ranking my armies of which one is tougher, because it all kind of makes sense to me on paper but it's hard for me to really tell without trying to use them against one another or having had a lot of experience playing in 8th, which I don't. All I really know for certain is that my Daemon list will rank a 10 and my Beastman list will rank a 1 or 2
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 9, 2012 21:16:17 GMT -5
Okay here comes the fifth army of death and suck.. Chaos DwarvesYeah a real blast from the past. Chaos Dwarves 2500 pt Chaos Dwarf listSorcerer Prophetlamnasu, level 4 upgrade, talisman of preservationDaemonsmith Sorcererlevel 2 upgradeBull Centaur Taur’rukgold sigil sword, shieldBull Centaur Taur’rukx39 Chaos Dwarf Infernal Guard hailshot blunderbuss, deathmask & standard bearerx3 Bull Centaur Rendersgreat weapon, shield, bull centaur ba’ha, standardDeathshrieker DeathrocketDeathshrieker DeathrocketDreadquake MortarDreadquake MortarAsskickery 4 of 10I really have no idea and am just kind of shooting in the dark now as far as ranking them against each other. I feel like it couldn’t beat the Skaven or Warriors of Chaos lists but could beat all the other ones I’ve posted so far. Even without the new book (and this list is pretty much just with stuff revised from their old Ravening Hordes list) 8th helped the chaos dwarves a lot for two main reasons. One is that the Death, Shadow, Fire, and Metal lores that their casters use are actually pretty good now. The other is that with the percentages rather than the limited number of rare and special slots, they can get a lot more of their war machines into a list and between that and the better magic they can actually pound the enemy pretty well from a distance and make them want to close with them, instead of having to slog across the board like movement 3 tyrannids. So in this list, the war machines and magic attempt to pummel the enemy from the other side of the board, with the big blunderbuss unit holding back to unload on anything that gets close. The bull centaur unit is mainly there to countercharge anything that charges the blunderbuss unit. Of course the fact that there are only really two combat units could make it easy for an enemy to outmaneuver them, but hopefully the two dreadquake mortars would be effective in keeping the enemy force out of synch, movement-wise (although it think the old earthshaker rules were better at disrupting movement than the new dreadquake rules, as much as I like the whole dangerous terrain test thing) Boner-Inducingness 2 of 10The Chaos Dwarves were the second army I ever painted (back in the late 90’s) and it shows. A friend of mine also gave me a bunch of his old chaos dwarf stuff last year, so I had been planning on doing a big chaos dwarf repaint at some point in time. My concept for them has been to do them in almost Christmas colors, with shiny metallic greens and reds, like Christmas tree ornaments, and then with the silvers and golds for the trim, then do something cool with the bases (I was thinking snow to go with the Christmas color scheme, but I may end up rebasing my dark elves with snow, and I don’t want more than one ‘snowy’ army) I think they would look pretty spiffy and I would take the time to do all of the armor details really well. Even still, there wouldn’t really be any conversions or stuff, and GW models have gotten a lot more dynamic looking since the 5th edition days that these guys are all from, so it ended up with only a ‘2’ here. Blood Selling Quota 7 of 10 I guess I would want to pick up the book that Forgeworld did, and then the materials cost for paints. So more than armies like my daemons or warriors of chaos that I don’t really need to pick up anything for, but less than my tomb kings or orcs and goblins were I would need at least $100 of stuff. Marriage-Busting Profile – 7 of 10It’s still painting a whole army of guys with lots of armor detail, but then again, it’s a very small army as far as model count goes (and the fact that they’re dwarves, har har) So definitely more work than other armies on this list, but still less than Tomb Kings, Skaven or Lizardmen. PITA Factor - 8 of 10 All-metal armies are always a pain. Again With the Daemons 5 of 10I used the Chaos Dwarves a lot in my original Cave Comics map campaign back in 01/02, but I think only once or twice in the last decade. Average Score – 3.5 of 10Another army that doesn’t have much of what I’m looking for right now. Depending how busy I am next fall and winter, I may try doing the repaint just to get into the Christmas spirit
|
|
|
Post by bob on Feb 10, 2012 10:09:25 GMT -5
You've got to make a monster like the Abominable Snowman from Rudolph! Hell, make Cornelius, the Dentist Elf, and the misfit toys, too!
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 10, 2012 11:06:38 GMT -5
I saw the new WFB update with the VC book was up on Army Builder so I downloaded it this morning and started working on revising my Kingdom of the Zombies. This was my first crack at it. Kingdom of the ZombiesKingdom of the Zombies 2500 pt Vampire Counts listThe Prince of Zombies (vampire lord) zombie dragon, level 2 upgrade, heavy armor, lance, shield, talisman of preservation, potion of speed, red furyBishop of Rot (vampire) level 2 upgrade, heavy armor, shieldFestering Magistrate (vampire) heavy armor, shieldCadaverous Sheriff (vampire) heavy armor, shieldLady of Maggots (tomb banshee) Lady of Worms (tomb banshee) Lady of Beetles (tomb banshee) x78 Zombiesstandard & musicianx78 Zombiesstandard & musicianx68 Zombiesstandard & musicianCorpse Cartunholy lodestoneZombie Engine (mortis engine) blasphemous tomeRotting Behemoth (warhammer giant) Asskickery - 8 of 10I know 8 of 10 seems pretty high for this list, and the only reason I'm giving it that rank is because I think it can probably beat all of the other lists I've posted so far. The only thing left right now is the the Beastmen and Lizardmen, which it will probably also be able to beat, and the Dark Elves and Daemons, which I know it won't be able to beat. And again, these are all my lists which are generally not terribly competitive. Basically the strategy here was to update my old Kingdom of the Zombies list to make use of the fact that zombies are a little hardier than before, you can put characters in zombie units now, and the banshees are characters that can join units. So you have three uber-massive hordes of zombies, each with a vamp and a banshee. They're big enough that even if they're not getting any healing, they should be able to last a few combat rounds, and with the banshee screaming in my shooting phases, the vampire in there swinging away, and the zombies actually being able to dish out a few wounds a turn, they may actually be able to wear down units instead of just tying them up. The mortis engine and corpse cart are around for casting support. The Prince of Zombies is going to be more of a mobile support caster and someone that can jump in to help finish off units, rather than the hammer he was back when he had the dreadlance/red fury combo. The warhammer giant (assuming I'm allowed to use him) will serve the same function he did before, which is be an non-undead unit that can help the zombies out without having to worry about crumbling when they lose combat. He's stubborn, so no matter what happens in the combat, he'll only have to test on an Ld 10, and if he runs, no-one will be able to chase him since they'd be locked in with the zombies. I think the Kingdom is definitely better now than when 8th ed first came out, but how good remains to be seen. Boner-Inducingness 7 of 10While a lot of the rank and files zombies are just adequately painted, the zombie engine, rotting giant, and prince of zombies conversions really stand out on the field. Also, my plan is to do thematic basing for all of the zombies with big single bases that represent 12 models each, so I'll be able to do cool stuff like mausoleums, cemetary gates, spooky trees, disenterred graves, and even some elevated areas, with zombies shambling around everywhere. The army is going to be pretty much one big graveyard that moves across the table, and should look pretty nice when it's done. Blood Selling Quota 9 of 6I really just need the book and then the stuff to make the scenic bases, a lot of which I already have. I'm going to also need some magnets, since I plan on doing the magnetized feet and bases treatment with my zombie knights so that I can put them on the thematic bases here and there with the zombies, while still being able to switch them back to cavalry bases whenever I want to do a list with black knights or blood knights. <EDIT>Now that I've got a list with a pair of terrorgeists in it, that ups the cost by about a hundred bucks, shooting them from a 4 up to a 9 here Marriage-Busting Profile 4 of 10There's some work to do definitely with converting everything to theme bases but it's light, fun work, and actually Mrs. Carnivean has gotten into helping with scenery stuff in the past and really enjoyed it, so it may be even be something we can work on together, planning out the bases and being creative with them. PITA Factor 7 of 10Lots of models on the table. I'm hoping the theme bases are going to drastically reduce that, but there's still probably going to be around 20 different pieces that need to get set up for each big unit, and while the theme bases are going to make them easier to set up and take apart, they may prove a little more difficult to store, so I'll probably have to make some custom trays for my army transport or something to accomodate them. Again With The Daemons 4 of 10The only armies I've used more recently are my warriors of chaos, daemons, and orcs and goblins, so I guess even with the new book, the Kingdom scores in the bottom half here Average Score 5.5 out of 10[/b] They didn't come out as high as the Army of Lord Horrificus, but still did pretty well overall. I would say they're probably one of the three I'm seriously kicking around at this point. <EDIT>Using some of Bob's suggestions, I went in and redid the list, going all the way with the scream theme. Kingdom of the Zombies 2500 pt Vampire Counts listThe Prince of Zombies (strigoi ghoul king) terrorgeist, skabscrath, seed of rebirth, curse of the revenantBishop of Rot (vampire) level 2 upgrade, heavy armor, shieldFestering Magistrate (vampire) heavy armor, shieldCadaverous Sheriff (vampire) heavy armor, shieldLady of Maggots (tomb banshee) Lady of Worms (tomb banshee) Lady of Beetles (tomb banshee) x73 Zombiesstandard & musicianx73 Zombiesstandard & musicianx73 Zombiesstandard & musicianCorpse Cartunholy lodestoneTerrorgeistTerrorgeistI'll probably move the zombie engine and zombie giant models into the big zombie units to take up some room. This list does require me to spend a little more money, since I'll be having to pick up the two terrorgeists.
|
|
|
Post by bob on Feb 10, 2012 11:55:19 GMT -5
What's the Giant?
<edit> No, I don't think you can take a Giant.
You've got a nice Scream-theme going...maybe instead of Zombie Dragon have the Lord one of those Strigoi guys on a Terrorgheist and give him the sword that lets him scream too. He won't have quite as much magic, but lvl 2 is meh anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 10, 2012 12:41:40 GMT -5
Saw your message about 2 terrorgeists - can get one by dropping the giant and a few zombies. Would need to drop mortis engine to get the second one, leaving me with 15 extra points. I'm at the cap with heroes, so I'm not going to be able to get anything more on those vampires. Too bad about the giant - I really liked how that model came out. Do you think it would be too outrageous to throw it in among the zombie horde? I suppose I could always save it for a Storm of Magic list.
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 12, 2012 14:33:50 GMT -5
Okay getting down to the end of it. Only a few left to go. Today we have..
Lizardmen I had bought this army off of Eric before I moved down here, and it's still pretty much half assembled, though I think I did put some Saurus warriors together and put them on a long stick for painting, but that was as far as I got before I got distracted with something else.
Lizardmen 2500 pt list
Slann Mage Priest obsidian amulet, the focused ruimination
Saurus Scar-Veteran pirhana blade, potion of speed, light armor, shield
Skink Priest ancient stegadon
x25 Saurus Warriors spears, spawning champion & standard bearer
x25 Saurus Warriors spears, spawning champion & standard bearer
x35 Temple Guard revered guardian, musician & standard bearer
Stegadon
Salamander Hunting Pack
Salamander Hunting Pack
Razordon Hunting Pack
Asskickery 5 of 10 I have never played lizardmen before so I have totally no clue here. I think the three big units will be pretty solid, and the casting seems pretty nice. I think I'm going to say a 'five' for right now.
Boner-Inducingness 3 of 10 I'm planning on doing a very quick and easy paint job on these guys, and I'm not planning on doing any conversions with the minis themselves, but I am going to be using vibrant colors for their scaly skin, so they'll get points for that, and also I'll be doing big theme bases for the saurus warriors with jungle plants and trees, and then a ruined temple theme for the big temple guard unit. So I think it will still be prettier overall than a couple of the other armies on this list.
Blood Selling Quota 6 of 10 Just need the book (which is fortunately one of the older soft cover ones, and then paints and materials for the models and theme bases, so they're on the lower end of the spectrum here.
Marriage Busting Profile 10 of 10 Yeah whole army of stuff to finish assembling and paint, so I'd have my work cut out for me there.
PITA Factor 3 of 10 Almost all plastic, so not too big of a hassle.
Again With The Daemons 10 of 10 Like I said, I've never played lizardmen before, so this would be something completely new to me.
Average Score 5.5 of 10 Kind of in the middle of the pack I think. All the work involved kind of canceled out the novelty of doing the army
|
|
|
Post by dante on Feb 12, 2012 22:51:46 GMT -5
i wonder who's sexy ogres those are in the zombie picture
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 17, 2012 21:08:06 GMT -5
Kicking off the final stretch today with Dark ElvesAbout a decade ago I was getting tired of marching my chaos, beastmen, vampires, tomb kings, and chaos dwarves across the table while getting shot to hell by the high elves, wood elves and empire armies my friends at the time all played. I wanted to have my own army that could shoot the crap out of things, and since there was no way I was going to buy and paint one of those goody goody armies, I went with dark elves. I worked on them for a couple of years and by the time they were done, we had gotten more into boardgames and 40K and so I started working on the Legion of the Kraken so I ultimately ended up playing only playing a couple of games with them. They made a one game re-emergence a couple years back at Hobbytown and it was the only time I've ever beaten Bob in Warhammer. That was the last time I've taken them for a spin, but when next I use them, they'll probably look a lot like this: The Heart of Midnight 2500 pt Dark Elf listDreadlordblack dragon, sea dragon cloak, shield, deathpiercer, armor of eternityMastermanticore, heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, shield, beastmaster's scourge, luckstoneSorceresssacrificial daggerx10 Repeater Crossbowmenx10 Repeater Crossbowmenx10 Repeater Crossbowmenx10 Repeater Crossbowmenx6 Driders (dark riders) x6 Driders (dark riders) x10 Harpiesx5 Cold One Knightsfull command, ranger's standardx10 Shadesextra handweaponReaper Bolt ThrowerReaper Bolt ThrowerWar Hydra8th ed has been kind of a double edged sword with my dark elves. On one hand the change from hero and lord slots to percentages has allowed me to field the dragon and manticore without completely sacrificing magic, but on the other the minimum core requirement change has made it necessary to get some more stuff to make them a legal army. (same thing with my Tomb Kings) Asskickery - 9 of 10While definitely not 'ard boys level, this is probably one of the meanest armies I have. Lots of shooty goodness, three big beasties, harassment in the form of the dark riders and harpies, mobility, and even some lackey-gakking spellcasting from a sorceress with the sacrificial dagger. The downside (especially in 8th ed) is that there aren't any big combat units, so the list is going to rely on really chewing things up with magic and shooting and then finishing them off with the beasties and cold one knights. Boner-Inducingness - 1 of 10It's really strange to think about, but other than the chaos dwarves, these guys are the oldest painted army of mine that's still in service, and they were finished back in 2004. It's that reason they scored so low here. They're competently painted, and were the first army I actually started doing more than one shade of color on, but I've continuesd to get better and do more with conversions. The dark elves didn't have any conversions in there, although the dark riders I'm adding to the army I'm going to make into driders (spider centaurs) by using some of the spiders from the Skull Pass set and a box of repeater crossbowmen for the dark elf halves. Blood Selling Quota - 4 of 10Really just a box of dark elf crossbowmen. I've already got the book and the rest of the army is all painted already. I may rebase them with possibly a snow theme or something, as right now they're just grey stone. Marriage Busting Profile - 3 of 10Again, not too much work involved. The conversions are quick and easy, basically shaving off the heads of the spiders and adding the upper half of the crossbowmen. I'm thinking I might use some of the dark eldar hellion heads instead of the helmeted ones. Then it's just painting up the 12 of them. If I redo the bases, that won't be too big a project either. PITA Factor - 5 of 10The harpies are top heavy and a big pain, and manticore is also pretty fragile, but on the plus side, it's a really low model count army that already has foam army transport trays customized to carry them. Again With The Daemons 7 of 10I think I've only used them three times before, so the only army I've used less are the skaven and the lizardmen. Average Score 6.5 of 10Actually they scored higher overall then I thought they would, mostly because of the strength of the list and the fact that I've hardly used them. I'm saving the best and worst armies (strength-wise) for last
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 18, 2012 11:12:32 GMT -5
Okay on to the last two; the 'death' and 'suck' of the thread title. We'll start with the suck. BeastmenThe beastmen have probably been the most screwed with of all the WFB armies, as far as the editions go. It seems like every time a new edition or codex comes out, people have to go rebuy a new army. Let's review. 5th edition (mid to late 90s): Beastmen and minotaurs are part of the Hordes of Chaos boxed set, and could be used in armies with daemons and chaos warriors. 6th edition: Ravening Hordes list. (2000) Beastmen are now treated as their own army, with a VERY limited range of units (gor, bestigor, ungor, minotaur, hound, harpy,dragon ogre) 6th edition: white dwarf list (2002) About a year after the chaos warriors got their 6th ed book (which included chaos warriors and daemons, but not anything for beastmen), they posted an article in White Dwarf that revised the Ravening Hordes beastman list and allowed them to be mixed with the chaos warriors in the same way as the daemons. This I guess was a precursor to the Beastman book, and dropped the harpies but introduced the shaggoth (at this time called the Dragon Ogre Drake) If I remember correctly, it also made all of the beastman into skirmishers, with mixed units of gors and ungors. It also introduces the doombull, which is the minotaur lord character. 6th edition Beastman book: (2003 - and yes you know it's bad when there are three different codexes for the same army in the same edition released in a three year span of time) With their first solo codex (which can be incorporated into Hordes of Chaos armies and vice versa) the beastmen actually get some new stuff: centigors, chaos trolls and chaos ogres, plus pestigors and khornigors (bestigors with the marks of nurgle or khorne). The shaggoth is fully realized now with it's own model. (it is also possible to have a lord character shaggoth). The mixed unit idea of gors and ungors is expanded on and made into the Mob rule for beastman. The ambushing is also introduced. The chaos giant is introduced here as well. 7th edition Daemons of Chaos/Warriors of Chaos (2008) Here the beastmen don't get anything new, but their list is drastically changed when the Warriors of Chaos and Daemon books comes out and prevent beastmen from being used in other chaos armies and vice versa, meaning a beastmen army could only be comprised strictly of what was in the beastmen book. Now anyone who had built a beastman army incorporating daemons and warriors of chaos units had to go buy a bunch of new stuff. Well at least the beastmen book still had cool and interesting units like the shaggoth, dragon ogres, chaos trolls, and chaos ogres to choose from. 7th edition Beastmen book (2010) GODDAMMIT!!! Chaos ogres, chaos trolls, dragon ogres, and the shaggoth are stripped away, having been given to the Warriors of Chaos in their last book. Also the Pestigors and Khornigors and marks of chaos in general. Also the mob rule is gone and ungors and gors are now back to being in separate rank and file units as they where in Ravening Hordes. What did beastmen players get in return? Ugly-assed razorgors. And three big beasties, none of which have a model for them at the time of the book's release (those came along a year and a half later and were kind of underwhelming IMO) And yes, I've played the beastmen through all of these periods so have had to redo my beastman army a number of times already, buying new stuff only to be pissed off when the next book comes along to completely turn everything on its head. I bought 5 chaos ogres, 5 chaos trolls, 5 dragon ogres, and a shaggoth when the 6th ed Beastman book came out and needless to say I was pretty pissed in February of 2010. I'm proud to say though that I haven't bought a single new model with the release of the lastest book. Screw them. Anyway now that my rant is over with, here's what I've come up with. -oh, one last bit of the rant coming up. The new book sucks. There, I think I got the last of it out. It Came From the Woods.. 2500 pt Beastmen listKhazrak One EyeDoombullheavy armor, shield, brass cleaver, talisman of enduranceWargorbattle standard bearer, heavy armor, extra hand weaponbray shamanlevel 2 upgradex30 ungorsfull commandx30 ungorsfull commandx30 ungorsfull commandx30 ungorshalf horn & standard bearerx37 Bestigorsfull commandx5 MinotaursbloodkineJabberslytheAsskickery - 2 of 10They're beastmen. Using the latest beastmen book. There's nothing more to really say about them. Oh wait, yes there is. The list was made by me. So here we have the suck trifecta at work. Boner-Inducingness 8 of 10Yeah, they're going to suck, but at least they'll look pretty doing it. My jabberslythe conversion (when I'm done with it) will probably be the army centerpiece, along with the big blocks of thematically based and nicely painted beastmen. The above unit is the first one I tried doing with the thematic basing to pad out the unit size to better fit 8th edition type lists, and I'm happy to say it got me an Ordo-Ineptus painting contest win back in Fall of 2010 Blood Selling Quota 3 of 10I don't need any more models - really it's just the materials for making the thematic basing and then paints and stuff for the rest of the models. Marriage Busting Profile 6 of 10I think there's going to be a really big gap between the amount of work that needs to be done on the armies that rank 5 and 6 on this list. Everything 5 and under needs a unit or two and some basing stuff, while everything 6 and above needs huge chunks of the army to be done. For the beastmen, I need to finish the jabberslythe, touch up the minotaurs, paint the bestigors and 3 of the gor units, so yeah, I would have my work cut out for me here. PITA Factor 4 of 10I wonder if I should give them points here just for being beastmen. Basically, they're all plastic except for the doombull, a couple minotaurs, and the bestigors, and even those are going to be on theme bases so there will be less opportunity for chipping paint. I don't have a carrier fitted for them in this new incarnation, but with the theme bases, there aren't actually too many different pieces and I could probably get a cheap tool box to set up as a transport for them. Again With The Daemons 6 of 10Would have been 8, but as I've said, I've played beastmen at least once or twice in every of their incarnations except for this latest one, so in total I guess I have used them more than the dark elves or skaven. Average Score 6 of 10Surprisingly, not too low, considering. I would say more, but this post has been too damn long already. You all know what the tenth army is going to be, but try to be surprised anyway when I post it tomorrow Hope you're all having fun at the WFB tournament today. Try not to let Bob win (or at least by too much) ;D
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 18, 2012 20:37:57 GMT -5
And last but not least, Daemons of ChaosThis seems to be the army I turn to whenever I get tired of getting my ass kicked and need to rebuild my self esteem a little. It tore through the Ordo-Ineptus fantasy league back in the fall of 2010, going undefeated with one draw against Bob (who was also using daemons. We had a fun Skulltaker Vs Skulltaker fight in that battle. His mounted Skulltaker won, if I remember correctly) The Harshness of Deathnipple 2500 pt Daemons of Chaos listDeathnipple (keeper of secrets) spirit swallowerSlicefondle (herald of slaanesh) multi-armed monstrosityPoxmangle (herald of nurgle) battle standard bearer, staff of nurgleEpidemiusSkulltakerx14 Bloodletters of Khornebloodreaper, standard bearer, icon of endless warx19 Daemonettes of Slaaneshaluress, standard bearerx19 Plaguebearers of Nurgleplagueridden, standard bearer, musician, standard of seeping decayx5 Nurgling Swarmsx6 Flamers of TzeentchpyrocasterBeast of NurgleFiend of SlaaneshAsskickery - 10 of 10Oh yeah. Actually the inclusion of Epidemius and upping of the nurgle quotient may actually make the list a little softer than the one I fielded in the 2010 Ordo league where I had a unit of 10 seekers and another herald of slaanesh and a herald of tzeentch on a disk. The only nurgle presence in that list was a 10 man unit of plaguebearers Boner-Inducingness - 4 of 10Nicely painted with lots of different colors that stand out well on the battlefield. Nothing in the way of conversions, though. I may do some more stuff with the bases I think, but probably not enough to top what the skaven are going to look like when finished. Blood Selling Quota - 1 of 10Already own all of the models and the book. Some paints for epidemius and maybe some basing materials for the units. Marriage Busting Profile - 1 of 10Again, all that needs to be painted are Epidemius and the Beast of Nurgle. I'm thinking of doing some thematic basing with the three infantry units: the plaguebearers in a plague ridden swamp, the daemonettes frolicking about a Hellraiser-style torture orgy, and the bloodletters marching through a field of skulls and carnage. May add some cool details to the KOS base too while I'm at it. Even with all of this, though it's still less work than any of the other nine armies are going to entail. PITA Factor - 1 of 10Easy to transport, not too many models - nothing terribly fragile (with the exception of the older metal daemonettes who lose their arms from time to time) Again With The Daemons - 1 of 10Well, considering that this army was the category-namer, it was no surprise they scored the lowest. I've used the daemons probably more than any other army, unless you count all the different variations of undead I've used since way back in 5th when tomb kings and vampires were all wrapped up in one army. Average Score - 7 .5 of 10[/u] Wow, being the easiest army to do time and money wise sure helped them a lot in the rankings. They ended up with the highest overall score. I'm probably not going to use them (unless of course I lose almost all the games I play between now and the start of the fantasy league ) but they'll probably end up being one of the three or four I narrow my decision down to. And that's all ten. I'm going to post a summary of all the rankings and categories (I see that I'm going to have to tweak a couple) in the next couple days. So what do you all think about these now that I've gotten them all out there?
|
|
|
Post by RodTheCid on Feb 22, 2012 16:54:16 GMT -5
My dear Dr. C, just wanted to thank for the very amusing readings, you have no idea of how many times you writing/rants have kept me awake between 3pm and 5pm or the number of laughs forcibly converted into snorting noises during office hours. I’m not really sure which army you should take but maybe the one that can actually offer you a new gaming experience would be the Dark Elves, the rest of the armies are a combination of magic and/or in your face close combat whereas the DE could be more sneaky, although here the problem would be exactly that too, since been sneaky might not be something that you have play before, it could be also challenging to “learn”
|
|
|
Post by bob on Feb 22, 2012 17:40:06 GMT -5
Jason, the more I look at possible combinations you can pull off with the Beastmen, the more I'm convinced they can work.
Just throwing some stuff out there:
A doombull like I build is nearly invincible, with 1+ save and 4+ ward, and dishes out a tremendous number of S6 attacks. In a small unit (5?) of just naked minotaurs, you have a hammer that is truly formidible, dishing out consistent 6-8 wounds to nearly anything. The DB can challenge and wreck all but the absolute meanie-est combat characters.
How about weedy little Gors with XHW...that get Occam's Mindrazor thrown on them....and BSB gives reroll for Primal Fury, so rerolling to-hit too. I think that's something like 15 wounds to nearly anything? Oohrah!
What about a 'coven' of Shaman around a Herdstone, shitting out Occam's Mindrazor, Beast buffs, Withering, Enfeebling, Pit of Shades?
How does the enemy move a unit of 45+ Ungors ranked 5-wide? How long can they be steadfast?
The Poomba-gor is bar far the ugliest GW model I've ever seen. I mean, that thing is an ugly MODEL, not an ugly monster. There is NOTHING I like about that model....but...consider a poombagor chariot, with lots of S5 impacts and then a lot of S5 bits. Or even a few single Razorgors...55 points for a cheap chaff deploy that actually can bite the shit out of stuff and has T5 W3. Remember how irritating I could make Chaos Spawn? These things are just as hard to kill, but don't have any of the random nonsense, and a higher S. for 55 points, I'd take a couple just to up the deploys and absolutely munch flanks! Oh, fear too...you can do a lot with a one-model-unit that causes fear. The rules say if the majority of the unit causes fear, the enemy has to test or be reduced to WS1. So I think if the enemy has a unit of Ungors in the front, and a Razorgor in it's flank, it has to test for fear...suddenly those Ungors are hitting on 3s with rerolls (thanks to primarl fury)
Consider the flee-bait-tricks you can do with the dirt-cheap dogs and ungor raiders...you can prevent people from charging things you don't want charged all day long!
I alluded to it before, but they get access to some great spell lores.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is if we can get past the changes made, and ignore how sillying ugly that razorgor and the new minos are, there's some things that can work in here.
Oh, and scouting harpies! It's subtle, but super effective...another cheap bait unit that can go eat warmachines if needed too!
Ok, I'm rambling. Go with beastmen, be prepared to rethink the list!
|
|
|
Post by gretchinmike on Feb 23, 2012 7:31:17 GMT -5
I say go with orcs & goblins just because they are awesome HOWEVER
Do not get the arachnorok spider for the list. It's just a very sucky launcher that tries to make people slow, it isn't worth the over 300 points for something that doesn't do anything worthwhile. I say spend the points on spider riders with bows or something, and get a big unit. Still not the best choice but much better than the big spider, and then if you wanted you could get the big spider as a themed base for them so you don't have to place as many, then you are more competitive and get an awesome spider.
|
|
|
Post by Dr Carnivean on Feb 25, 2012 10:10:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the imput guys! I'd been so busy studying this week I haven't really been thinking much about WFB, but I was running though some scenarios last night and this morning.
Adding up the scores, the ten armies ranked, from lowest to highest: Chaos Dwarves, Ghosts N Goblins, Tomb Kings, Lizardmen, Kingdom of the Zombies, Skaven, Beastmen, Dark Elves, Army of Lord Horrificus, Daemons (again with the daemons...)
I figure I can narrow things down by eliminating the bottom half of the list (sorry Mikey)
That leaves me with the three chaos armies, skaven, and dark elves to decide from.
I played around with beastmen on army builder (for some reason I couldn't find the herdstone shard as an magic item option for anybody - I'll have to get the points cost from the book) I wasn't able to get one that was the type of army I wanted to do that I was really happy with, but I'm going to take another few passes at it. I did the doombull like you have Bob, and dropped out the rest of the minos to have him on his own, dropping the ungor units for a pair of 40 man gor units and a pair of 20 man gor units (or I can do four 30 man units) But that was kind of as far as I was able to get with it. How I want to play them is like the tyrannid list I played in the Fall '09 league where stuff keeps coming onto the board and jumping out at you from all over the place, which is why I've been going with the One Eye. I don't like the ungor raiders in 8th, which leaves gor and ungor units to ambush in with. I really don't like the way they did the ambushing where you have to have a unit of equal or greater size that doesn't ambush for every one that does. I would have rather they just made it an upgrade or something. If I want to have more than one decent sized unit ambushing it's eating up a crapload of points. Having a thought right now as I type this... hold on a sec.. Okay if I drop the bestigor unit and put the general and bsb in a 37 man gor unit, I can have another two 40 man gor units and three 20 man units, which would allow me to ambush in a 40 man unit of gors and two 20 man units. I don't know though if that's going to make up for the lack of punch from the loss of the bestigor unit, but having the doombull there to charge in as back up will give any unit a big punch, I suppose. If I could figure out a way to get another two casters and a herdstone shard in there, I think I could have a list I liked but I can't think of anywhere to get the points (no way I'm dropping the jabberslythe after spending so much time on him - although I suppose I could pick up enough casters that would make bringing the slythe in with that #6 spell almost guaranteed - though I was hoping to bring in the giant with that) Maybe you have some more ideas for that Bob
|
|