6th Edition Tyranid Rambling
Jan 12, 2014 0:18:52 GMT -5
Post by sionnach19 on Jan 12, 2014 0:18:52 GMT -5
So, after a long day of sitting and waiting around airports as I flew back from San Antonio, I finally got my hands on a copy of the new codex! I spoiled most of it for myself by keeping up to date with all the internet rumors, so it's not entirely surprising, but I have it in my hands now. Despite my beef with some of the rule changes, the book itself is gorgeous -- this is the first hardcover codex I've picked up, and as much as the $50 price tag irks me the book is very, very nice. Can't say that I'm disappointed with the switch. The whole thing looks so good that I almost forgot about how bad some of the rules are!
Now, the sky isn't falling... there will decent builds out of this book (not top tier, but honestly I don't think more brokeness on par with Tau/Eldar is really good for the game). But I think there are tons of missed opportunities, or really cool ideas with poor execution.
Here are my takes (not comprehensive of the book as a whole, just stuff I like or miss).
The Good: Heavy Support slot has lots of good choices, without any no-brainers. Mawlocs, Exocrine, Tyrannofex, Carnifex, and Biovores are all solid depending on what your army needs (and Trygons, while worse, aren't terrible). I like the move of Old One Eye and Deathleaper to the HQ slot, to give HS and Elites some breathing room. I like the inclusion of Haywire in the book (I think it's a cool representation of how nids would handle vehicles). I like that there are less no-brainers.
The Bad: Nerfing the Swarmlord's bonesabres makes me sad. Deathleaper losing his ability to redeploy makes me sad. I wish the Parasite's spawn-ripper ability had been replicated elsewhere (make it a tail weapon option, or an artifact!). Units that were not taken last codex being left the same (Warriors, Genestealers, Pyrovores, my beloved Raveners) or being made worse (Tyranid Prime, Rippers). Flyers having victim stats for the standard S7 AP4 anti-aircraft gun every in the faction in the game can take. Scything Talons were perfect last edition, making them worse was a bummer. I love the idea of Nid psychic table, warlord traits, and bio-artifacts... I just wish that they were halfway decent. No more assaulting out of reserve (many tears are shed). Tervigon nerf was totally necessary, but they definitely went overboard. Historically fearsome close combat army... has no units that are really any good in melee?
The Weird: By taking Old One Eye or Deathleaper as your HQ, you can make an army that has no synapse. By taking a Tervigon as your only HQ, you have no warlord (since it's not a character).
So, now I'm left figuring out how to update Hive Fleet Jackalope. I'm not really pleased with the codex from the standpoint of competitive 40k. There are no obvious "good" units like Wave Serpents or Riptides (which admittedly, is probably a better thing for overall balance). Flying Hive Tyrants with 2x TL-Devourers, the dominant HQ choice for the past three codices; are hands down the best HQ choice. I'm flirting with the idea of running Deathleaper because he's one of my favorite characters, and even if I cheese out I'll still get roflstomped by better players/armies. Elites... Lictors are cheap, still don't have special abilities to match their awesome fluff but they're cheap enough to field at least. Venomthropes are an awesome force multiplier, though I'm unsure of how easily I'll be able to keep them safe from enemy shooting. I'm down on Hive Guard, getting nerfed to BS3 hurts their shooting output a lot (BS3 is bad unless you have markerlights or a million shots). Troops wise, I'm really bored. Gaunts got cheaper, but the upgrades they need to do any work got more expensive so that's largely a wash. Warriors are cool, but bad and expensive. Genestealers are probably the best bet for getting scoring on the enemy's side of the table. Knee jerk says take one tervigon still, but Sean points out that 1 tevrigon is worth 50 gaunts... that's a steep price. Fast attack, if you're not taking anything grab min spore units to be obnoxious. Gargoyles are still pretty strong. Jury's out on the flyers... I want to like them, not sure which is a better choice. Heavy support, I have to run one patented facebeater brood and probably some other shooty stuff. I want exocrines, but Tyrannofex and Biovores are good too. I think Mawlocs are an awesome choice... if you don't have flying mc for backfield disruption, mawlocs are a good bet (and would work pretty well with a bunch of lictors in the elites slot).
So, bear with my flurry of lists. Two "theory" lists, and then what I'm planning for Gaming Etc at the end of the month to test things out.
Vanguard/Disruption List
130 - Deathleaper
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers
100 - 2x Lictors
100 - 2x Lictors
80 - 2x Venomthropes
170 - 5x Warriors, 2x Rending Claws, 1x Barbed Strangler
70 - 5x Genestealers
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
40 - 10x Termagants
15 - 3x Spore Mines
15 - 3x Spore Mines
15 - 3x Spore Mines
140 - Mawloc
140 - Mawloc
450 - 3x Carnifex w/2xTL-Brainleech Devourers (Facebeater Herd)
1975
Room for some upgrades or whatever. I would have loved to get a flyer in there, but can't sacrifice the bodies from troops (and those spore mines might be better as hormagants). Lots of weird stuff deepstriking turn 2 (and maybe Tyrant stays in reserve to fly in), Lictors with Venomthrope cover are a 2+ cover save in area terrain, Warriors give backline synapse, Genestealers outflank for rear objectives... probably not good, but wackier and fluffier.
Big Guns List
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers
80 - 2x Venomthropes
170 - 5x Warriors, 2x Rending Claws, 1x Barbed Strangler
70 - 5x Genestealers
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
40 - 10x Termagants
135 - Harpy
450 - Facebeater Herd
170 - Exocrine
170 - Exocrine
2025
This list would need to shave some points... not sold on the flyer, but gives me some wackiness. Could drop him to bulk out troops more. Not sure on what big guns to include -- could opt for Tyrannofex instead of Exocrine, which are more durable but less killy, or biovores for spore mine craziness. This is what I'm leaning towards as being solid -- loaded Heavy Support, two flyrants, and some filler stuff in the middle.
1850 List for Gaming Etc
130 - Deathleaper
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, TL-Devourers
40 - Venomthrope
40 - Venomthrope
170 - 5x Warriors, 2x Rending Claws, Barbed Strangler
140 - 20x Hormagants, Adrenal Glands
75 - 19x Termagants
80 - 20x Termagants
70 - 5x Genestealers
40 - 10x Termagants
135 - Harpy
80 - 2x Biovores
450 - Facebeater Herd
170 - Exocrine
1850
A little all over the place, but I want to try everything! Want to see what the Harpy does. Want to try out these heavy support options. Want to give Deathleaper a spin. More importantly, I don't have to buy anything or bend over backwards to put this on the table, which is nice. A good chunk of it will even be painted!
Anyways, I just wanted to generate a bunch of discussion and see what folks thought about the book. Hopefully this thread will give us a place to talk out loud and swap ideas about good combinations and units, and share our experiences with stuff.
Now, the sky isn't falling... there will decent builds out of this book (not top tier, but honestly I don't think more brokeness on par with Tau/Eldar is really good for the game). But I think there are tons of missed opportunities, or really cool ideas with poor execution.
Here are my takes (not comprehensive of the book as a whole, just stuff I like or miss).
The Good: Heavy Support slot has lots of good choices, without any no-brainers. Mawlocs, Exocrine, Tyrannofex, Carnifex, and Biovores are all solid depending on what your army needs (and Trygons, while worse, aren't terrible). I like the move of Old One Eye and Deathleaper to the HQ slot, to give HS and Elites some breathing room. I like the inclusion of Haywire in the book (I think it's a cool representation of how nids would handle vehicles). I like that there are less no-brainers.
The Bad: Nerfing the Swarmlord's bonesabres makes me sad. Deathleaper losing his ability to redeploy makes me sad. I wish the Parasite's spawn-ripper ability had been replicated elsewhere (make it a tail weapon option, or an artifact!). Units that were not taken last codex being left the same (Warriors, Genestealers, Pyrovores, my beloved Raveners) or being made worse (Tyranid Prime, Rippers). Flyers having victim stats for the standard S7 AP4 anti-aircraft gun every in the faction in the game can take. Scything Talons were perfect last edition, making them worse was a bummer. I love the idea of Nid psychic table, warlord traits, and bio-artifacts... I just wish that they were halfway decent. No more assaulting out of reserve (many tears are shed). Tervigon nerf was totally necessary, but they definitely went overboard. Historically fearsome close combat army... has no units that are really any good in melee?
The Weird: By taking Old One Eye or Deathleaper as your HQ, you can make an army that has no synapse. By taking a Tervigon as your only HQ, you have no warlord (since it's not a character).
So, now I'm left figuring out how to update Hive Fleet Jackalope. I'm not really pleased with the codex from the standpoint of competitive 40k. There are no obvious "good" units like Wave Serpents or Riptides (which admittedly, is probably a better thing for overall balance). Flying Hive Tyrants with 2x TL-Devourers, the dominant HQ choice for the past three codices; are hands down the best HQ choice. I'm flirting with the idea of running Deathleaper because he's one of my favorite characters, and even if I cheese out I'll still get roflstomped by better players/armies. Elites... Lictors are cheap, still don't have special abilities to match their awesome fluff but they're cheap enough to field at least. Venomthropes are an awesome force multiplier, though I'm unsure of how easily I'll be able to keep them safe from enemy shooting. I'm down on Hive Guard, getting nerfed to BS3 hurts their shooting output a lot (BS3 is bad unless you have markerlights or a million shots). Troops wise, I'm really bored. Gaunts got cheaper, but the upgrades they need to do any work got more expensive so that's largely a wash. Warriors are cool, but bad and expensive. Genestealers are probably the best bet for getting scoring on the enemy's side of the table. Knee jerk says take one tervigon still, but Sean points out that 1 tevrigon is worth 50 gaunts... that's a steep price. Fast attack, if you're not taking anything grab min spore units to be obnoxious. Gargoyles are still pretty strong. Jury's out on the flyers... I want to like them, not sure which is a better choice. Heavy support, I have to run one patented facebeater brood and probably some other shooty stuff. I want exocrines, but Tyrannofex and Biovores are good too. I think Mawlocs are an awesome choice... if you don't have flying mc for backfield disruption, mawlocs are a good bet (and would work pretty well with a bunch of lictors in the elites slot).
So, bear with my flurry of lists. Two "theory" lists, and then what I'm planning for Gaming Etc at the end of the month to test things out.
Vanguard/Disruption List
130 - Deathleaper
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers
100 - 2x Lictors
100 - 2x Lictors
80 - 2x Venomthropes
170 - 5x Warriors, 2x Rending Claws, 1x Barbed Strangler
70 - 5x Genestealers
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
40 - 10x Termagants
15 - 3x Spore Mines
15 - 3x Spore Mines
15 - 3x Spore Mines
140 - Mawloc
140 - Mawloc
450 - 3x Carnifex w/2xTL-Brainleech Devourers (Facebeater Herd)
1975
Room for some upgrades or whatever. I would have loved to get a flyer in there, but can't sacrifice the bodies from troops (and those spore mines might be better as hormagants). Lots of weird stuff deepstriking turn 2 (and maybe Tyrant stays in reserve to fly in), Lictors with Venomthrope cover are a 2+ cover save in area terrain, Warriors give backline synapse, Genestealers outflank for rear objectives... probably not good, but wackier and fluffier.
Big Guns List
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers
80 - 2x Venomthropes
170 - 5x Warriors, 2x Rending Claws, 1x Barbed Strangler
70 - 5x Genestealers
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
140 - 20x Hormagants, AG
40 - 10x Termagants
135 - Harpy
450 - Facebeater Herd
170 - Exocrine
170 - Exocrine
2025
This list would need to shave some points... not sold on the flyer, but gives me some wackiness. Could drop him to bulk out troops more. Not sure on what big guns to include -- could opt for Tyrannofex instead of Exocrine, which are more durable but less killy, or biovores for spore mine craziness. This is what I'm leaning towards as being solid -- loaded Heavy Support, two flyrants, and some filler stuff in the middle.
1850 List for Gaming Etc
130 - Deathleaper
230 - Hive Tyrant, Wings, TL-Devourers
40 - Venomthrope
40 - Venomthrope
170 - 5x Warriors, 2x Rending Claws, Barbed Strangler
140 - 20x Hormagants, Adrenal Glands
75 - 19x Termagants
80 - 20x Termagants
70 - 5x Genestealers
40 - 10x Termagants
135 - Harpy
80 - 2x Biovores
450 - Facebeater Herd
170 - Exocrine
1850
A little all over the place, but I want to try everything! Want to see what the Harpy does. Want to try out these heavy support options. Want to give Deathleaper a spin. More importantly, I don't have to buy anything or bend over backwards to put this on the table, which is nice. A good chunk of it will even be painted!
Anyways, I just wanted to generate a bunch of discussion and see what folks thought about the book. Hopefully this thread will give us a place to talk out loud and swap ideas about good combinations and units, and share our experiences with stuff.