sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Mar 31, 2009 21:48:43 GMT -5
Alright, I'm gonna try and make this thread become a miniblog for my Warriors of Chaos army. Basically consist of me asking questions, advice, tossing up lists, ideas, and keeping you guys all posted with the progress. Cool, right? Question numero uno! I have a dilemma, I have narrowed my 2250 point list down to two different Lord choices: Tim the Warrior and Tim the Magician. (420) - Tim the Magician: Sorcerer Lord - Book of Secrets, Infernal Puppet, Blood of Tzeentch, Word of Agony, MoT, Disc of Tzeentch Basically, this sucker goes around spewing unholy Tzeentch firepower all over the battlefield. The book of secrets lets me grab a spell from the Lore of Fire, which would represent Tim's usual flaming explosion's a bursty-ness (as well as supplying an extra power dice for him to utilize). Blood lets me make sure I can pass my spells, and Infernal Puppet lets me screw with enemy magicians (not sold on it though). Word of Agony is there in case Tim ever gets into combat, hopefully my enemy will challenge him to try and kill him quickly and I'll simply use the Word of Agony to turn the tables. Handy little tool. Disc of Tzeentch lets him float around to where he's needed, and the flying will let him get charges and allow him to beat up on isolated enemy units. (400) - Tim the Warrior: Chaos Lord, Armor of Damnation, Father of Blades, Talisman of Protection, MoT, Shield, Disc of Tzeentch, Word of Agony This guy is crafty. Impressive armor save to begin with, plus a 5+ ward with the Talisman and MoT. He has the Armor of Damnation, which forces my enemy to reroll successful hits. Father of Blades means that any rolls of a 1 to hit hurt the attacking model! I think Bob showed me this one, but it's really neat and sneaky. The Disc lets me get ungodly charge ranges. Those were two ideas I had. Another alternative was mounting my Lord/Sorcerer on a Manticore/Dragon to make it a powerful melee combatant, but the model's are expensive both in cash and points. Shelling out close to a third of my army for one model seems ridiculous to me. The other idea was to use a Demon Prince, which I've kept in mind but the DP lacks the cool equipment options. I dunno yet. Army list to come I hope!
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Post by bob on Mar 31, 2009 22:19:30 GMT -5
A character mounted on a flying mount can never join a unit. This means that he can be targetted by any and every ranged weapon your enemy can bring to bear, including spells, longbows, bolt-throwers, cannon, stone throwers, sharp sticks, giant rocks, and the occassional giant-hurled former compatriot. It is standard to equip high-value flying characters with some manner of regen/ward to protect againt ranged weapons. Collar of Khorne isn't a bad option, giving MR2 and a 5+ ward with your MoT. Golden Eye is great, giving a 3+ against missile attacks (cannons bounce off his awesomeness!), but not doing anything for you in melee. ToP isn't a bad option with MoT. Armour of Morrslieb is fine against non-magic. Combined with Collar of Khorne you're nigh invulnerable, as you've got the MR2 and 5+ vs. magic too...but that gets pricey. Puppet and Blood are both Arcane items...a character can only have one of each item type (excepting Dispel and Stones). I urge you to check out the negative aspect of the Book of Secrets...it forces one d6 on the miscast roll instead of the typical 2, which means you go from about 50% chance of a miscast not going too badly to about a 16% chance...which of course means that 84% of your miscasts will suck. The puppet helps you there, and many consider puppet a requirement anyway, but having the book on someone that's going to be throwing 5 dice at big spells is asking to have his head blown up. I'd drop the Book. Get a Power Familiar if you want an extra PD. The Blood is ok, but seems Meh to me. Word is a fine ability, but seems kind of strange to use on a guy that really shouldn't be in melee, and is pretty pricey for a one-time ability. A Chaos Sorc Lord has respectable melee stats, but he's not going to survive a melee. He's US2, so will likely be outnumbered by anything he attacks...that puts him in the hole already. His S and # of attacks seem to indicate that against the squishy things you'd want him to attack, he's doing 1.5 W. He's going to take attacks back. He's not going to win combats, and you'll risk losing him to Break. If you take the Sorc, don't get him in melee. If you want a sorc in melee, buy him some melee items. The Warrior guy has a fun combination of items that make him really fun against High S beasties (like Doombulls!), but it's kind of blah...he doesn't get to kill things, just hope the enemy will kill himself. The disc ideas are great, but I think both guys as represented will struggle in any combats and are very vulnerable to getting shot down. A DP of TZ is the premier caster in the book. He comes out a bit more expensive at 555, but you get 4+ward (3+ vs. magic!) with MR2 T5 W4 Stubborn Ld8 with +1 to cast, rerolling any on casting die (even a 1!). A cheapish 210 Tz BSB on a disc (flail, enchanted shield, golden eye? maybe collar for MR?) gives a very survivable fast bsb that can be where needed and is able to wipe out high T/AS small units (chariots, knights, etc)...and maybe that DP can get a reroll on his Stubborn 8? Add in a 210pt lvl 2 nurgle sorc on foot with a scroll and power familiar (adds to power pool, so DP can use it) and you've got a dominating magic phase with the big lvl 4 throwing big spells and this guy sniping with my beloved Buboes: a total of 9 PD (with a reroll) and 5 dd (and some MR on the meaner things), all for a bargain 970 points. If you want to go even more over the top, you could throw in another lvl 2 wizard with toys to really throw all your eggs in the magic basket! I like Dragons. I think a character on a dragon should be melee oriented...a wizard should be casting spells, not fighting troops. A dragon is mean enough that with a half way respectable rider he can stand a good chance of charging the front of ranked up static CR bunkers and blasting thru with ease...but of course you'd hit a flank or rear with his superior mobility to ensure your victory and overrun in to something else. I've begun to rant, but have given myself some fine ideas for a magic-heavy WoC list
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Post by Dr Carnivean on Apr 1, 2009 9:50:47 GMT -5
I think I'm going to have to custom model you a 'Tim the Enchanter' at some point, Bri. If you go with sorcerer lord, I think putting him on the disk is a good and fairly inexpensive way to keep him mobile and out of combat - which is what you want, as Bob said. Don't bother spending points on melee related stuff for him and just focus on the casting and give him a ward save from shooting as Bob suggested. You're right - I think this time around they made the chaos dragon a 3000 point army thing. Chaos units are definitely the most expensive in the game, point wise, so it's really hard to fill out 2000 points with decent troops after you've put him in there. Unlike armies like the undead where you can make up the points of the dragon by putting in some dirt cheap troops that will never run and you can keep healing them over and over again, with chaos you're only cheap choices are the marauders and hounds, which are good for filling out the army and usefull for diversions, but definitely not good enough to be the army mainstay. If you're using a lot of powerful units like chaos warriors, knights, and chosen, I would put a warrior lord on a demonic mount or a jugger, since mounted characters can now join units, and you would have the mobility to put him in whatever unit needs him at the time. I've seem Bob do this and it's pretty effective. If you've got a lot of chariots and things that he can't join, give him some anti-shooting ward saves and maybe go manticore if you've got the points for it, or possibly a chariot.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 1, 2009 18:24:18 GMT -5
Alright, so sorcerer should remain out of combat Got it. Since it seems Demon Prince's are the best option for Lord choices, I'll probably use one of them (eat up a lot of points which is good too). Not sure if he'll be Tim or not yet It'd have to be an impressive model... Speaking of which, thanks for the offer Dr. C! I know I made up my own mini-Tim using some Chaos Knight bits and stuff and planned on putting him on a Disk of Tzeentch, but can't for the life of me find the model! Grumble grumble grumble. But making a big impressive Tim on a cool base to count as a demon prince could be awesome too... I already have my BSB, unfortunately no Disc on him but I have him carrying the Banner of Rage and riding with my Chaos Knights. My Nurgle sorcerer will be in like usual, and I may add another sorcerer too just for kicks to go magic heavy. Keeps my model count low too, which may work out in my favor. Otherwise I'll be stealing all of Bob's models
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Post by shasoevan on Apr 4, 2009 10:39:46 GMT -5
I agree with bob about the wizard, they die very quickly when in CC.
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Post by g on Apr 10, 2009 14:47:18 GMT -5
Brian.. you still owe me a Fantasy battle. My Bretonnians will be worthy opponents for your horde.
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Post by shasoevan on Apr 10, 2009 21:05:52 GMT -5
Bring stuff with high str brian. His knights are VERY hard to figh.
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Post by bob on Apr 11, 2009 0:00:50 GMT -5
Brian, I'm curious what your ideas for "full" 2k/2250 list are?
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 11, 2009 19:44:34 GMT -5
Here ya go: (435) – Daemon Prince, Level 4, MoT (215) – BSB, Banner of Rage, MoT, Chaos Steed, Fury of the Blood God, Shield, Flail (226) - Exalted Sorcerer, Level 2, Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll, MoN, Steed (30) - 5x Warhounds (30) – 5x Warhounds (130) - 20x Marauders, MoS, Shields, Light Armor (110) - 20x Marauders, MoS, Flails (268) - 15x Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shields, Banner, Musician (268) - 15x Chaos Warriors, MoS, Shields, Banner, Musician (81) - 5x Marauder Horsemen, Musician, Throwing Spears, Shields (200) - 5x Chaos Knights, Musician (265) –Chaos Giant, MoN Freaking General is soooooooooooooo expensive. There wasn't a lot of room to add much else into my list, like Spawn/more Knights/more Chaos Warriors. I snuck the Giant in though. What are your thoughts? It should have an impressive magical presence on the battlefield, I hope. 9 PD is pretty handy, and I think I have 4 really strong infantry blocks there too. I don't know if I have enough "Hammer" units though to dish out damage instead of take it. I want to keep a solid amount of troops in there, but another sorcerer would be nice as well as getting another good damage dealing unit (I'm thinking a small unit of Chaos Trolls could make a nice substitution for an extra unit of Knights). But the more toys I add, the less core troops I have access to. I don't really know what's best in a Fantasy list...
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Post by bob on Apr 11, 2009 19:51:50 GMT -5
I'd drop whatever you need to to get Tendrils on the DP.
Also Fury is a natural fit on a DP...they can't take magic items anyway! As it is, your BSB can't carry the magic banner because of Fury, which precludes taking magic items (which includes flags). Having a frenzied fliers feels scary to me....maybe drop that flag for something defensive?
Love the rest, though MoN on Giant seems out of place (but fluffy!)
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Post by shasoevan on Apr 11, 2009 20:09:49 GMT -5
What is Mon, and Mot, I am so lost
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Post by bob on Apr 11, 2009 20:23:58 GMT -5
Mark of Nurgle, Mark of Tzeentch
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Post by shasoevan on Apr 11, 2009 20:58:36 GMT -5
oo, ok.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 11, 2009 22:19:47 GMT -5
I'd drop whatever you need to to get Tendrils on the DP. Also Fury is a natural fit on a DP...they can't take magic items anyway! As it is, your BSB can't carry the magic banner because of Fury, which precludes taking magic items (which includes flags). Having a frenzied fliers feels scary to me....maybe drop that flag for something defensive? Love the rest, though MoN on Giant seems out of place (but fluffy!) Tendrils and Fury on DP? Will do. The BSB isn't on a disk he's just on a horse (That's how my model is mounted). I may give him the Talisman of Protection and toss him in with the Knights, who I'll mark with Khorne naturally instead of doing the banner thingy. Yeah, in hindsight MoN is an awfully expensive upgrade. I may drop it and rework some things to fit different stuff in there. You're always recommending Spawn to me, so that's a good place to start with the extra points.
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Post by shasoevan on Apr 11, 2009 22:28:36 GMT -5
Bob used spawn to fight me with his cows. They are very good at holding a unit up for a bit of time so you could get in a better position. It is a bit of a risk on the attacks but it could also benifit you. d6+1 for attacks right bob?
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