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Post by dante on May 12, 2014 12:45:24 GMT -5
Here is a nice video with Mr. Johnson explaining some of the changes he was a part of concerning army composition in the new 7th edition of Warhammer 40k. www.youtube.com/embed/7JnMByJVUowI urge everyone to take this as you will, but some key parts I think people should want to focus in on are... "...pick an army, we really have quite overhauled the way you can go about that to give players more choice.""You can still choose to organize your army the same you have done in the past, the difference is that they are no longer mandatory." Surely he must be kidding? If this is true then the force organization chart is no longer required? Right? "Unbound Armies" The unbound method is the easiest way to organize an army: simply use whatever units from your collection you want. Besides being a quick way to get your models on the tabletop, the unbound method also allows you to try out exciting combinations in your army, such as fielding a whole force of tanks or flyers, or even special characters."What.... Apparently if you take a normal force org your get certain perks now to your force, these perks are known as Command benefits. "Ideal mission commander: if this detachment is chosen as your primary detachment then you can choose to re-roll your warlord trait result on the warlord trait table."or "Objective secured: All troops units from this detachment have the objective secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring units are within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule."So basically now your options are take some fairly situation perks...or 15 wave serpents. Watch the video share your thoughts! My opinion is just...what?
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Sam
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Post by Sam on May 12, 2014 13:41:59 GMT -5
He refers to it as 6th edition and they are still selling the digital version online. They are also holding off releasing faqs until the release and the original rumour is they will release a faq for the old 6th edition book and update the online book. So my hope is not everyone needs to buy the new book for $100 unless they want too. Personally I have the 6th hard back and will now buy the enhanced ebook version of the revised 6th. But honestly the changes coming are pretty much a new version of the game.
First EVERY unit scores but not every unit contests an objective. Second dedicted transports are now considered part of that unit selection. So your veteran squad chimera is now a scoring/contesting unit. There are three army types now. Battleforged the old FOC set up, which rerolls warlord traits and BF TROOP selection are the ONLY unit that can contest objectives. Unbound is the new army selection that allows you to chose an army using ANY model you have. I am also not sure you use allies with unbound because the description for formations state " Unlike other detachments, formations can also be taken as part of unbound armies...". There is way to much unknown about Unbound to make any decision at this point. The third army selection is formations. Basically the formations we have now can be taken stand alone as an army OR be taken as an allied detachment.
Also the allies chart is being changed completely. The only thing we know now is Tau and Space marines are now desperate allies and no longer battle brothers.
Psychic powers are changing and the way it works is completely changing. A new pyschic phase, the ability for psychers to cancel another psychics power, etc. There is even a whole new psychic tree Demonic, which has two paths. Offensive and defensive. With one of the biggest powers people are crying about the ability to summon a greater demon. There is so little know about this as well its not worth commenting on psychic powers right now. Its basically completely new.
Finally the entire mission and victory point of the game is changing. There are 6 new missions, this is awesome regardless since playing the same 6 scenarios can get boring. Also makes me wonder if all units are scoring now what is happening to big guns never tire and the scouring (heavy support and fast attack are scoring missions). There is also new mission cards awarding victory points during the game. You draw one each turn and keep them until its completed or discard a mission and draw a new card next turn. Something to that effect. Honestly again this is good it keeps the game changing so the same two games versus the same two armies doesnt feel repetative.
There is also rumours of 4th edition style assault consolidation and reworked vehicle damage charts being done. As well as adding in some of the rules from stronghold assault and escaltion (Lords of War are defintely in the FOC chart)
My opinion? GW directly addressed issues people had with 6th edition abuse at least according to the rumours. Allies, psychic powers, gaming victory points with last minute objective grabbing reserves. They also added in a bunch of stuff promoting sales and just letting people play whatever the heck they want. My guess? we will have more varied and cool games especially in regards to a narrative style campaign. You just can't take everything serious, because on the flip side there is bound to be broken lists with this, even though GW may have tried to close some exploitable rules in 6th edition they also at the same time opened up a flood gate of new possible exploitable rules. I dont expect many if any homerun rules writing in this update but i expect a couple of doubles and few singles and sadly a strike out or two. We will find out in a few weeks what changed. Regardless I still think we can have fun with a narrative campaign. Tournaments will undoubably figure out what new list is abusing the rules and set limits to it. My guess is they will limit certain spam lists by limiting certain unit entries to no more then a set amount or maybe thats already a part of unbound and we just dont know the rules yet.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 12, 2014 20:13:13 GMT -5
*shrug* I doubt Unbound will matter for competitive events, which will just make the FOC mandatory for tournaments and the like (objective secured is no joke though, that's a pretty powerful ability and well worth it for some armies that can comfortably fit within the standard FOC anyways). Unbound only seems really effective for stupid things, ie 15 Wave Serpents or an army that is only Land Raiders or an army which is entirely airborne and thus immune to assault. Idk, all the people who would be fine with "Screw the FOC, play with whatever you want!" were likely already throwing out the FOC anyways. Trying to codify that in the rulebook just seems silly. New rule: there are no rules! Changing the way allies work sounds really good! I'm not against the new psychic phase in theory... I actually think it's a cool concept, and by far the magic phase was my favorite aspect of Fantasy. That being said, in practice I expect GW to screw it all up (most folks believe the magic is where the most recent Fantasy edition failed, right? With all the stupid "make strength check or die" super powers?). Daemonology is stupid, the Chaos combined forces thing can be adequately represented with Allies and there is no need for every other army in the game to be able to summon them. Getting a free Greater Daemon off of your 50 point IG psyker is dumb. I can't imagine why people wouldn't run armies built with a ton of psykers to keep summoning demonic troops all game. The psychic changes need to make things less no brainer (not Prescience/Invisibility/Forewarning or gtfo). Another problem is for the armies which don't play the psychic game at all... Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons. In Fantasy, the nonmagic armies usually had crap to let them at least generate dispel dice and negate enemy psychic powers (like Dwarf runes, right?)... I don't know how the new rules prevent the non-psychic races from getting roflstomped by Eldar psychic shenanigans, or Space Wolf Rune Priest buff batteries, or IG daemon groupies which they can't prevent. At least GW is consistent; Tyranids have been forbidden from the shiny new psychic disciplines just like they're forbidden from allies. Woo! Mission changes can't make things worse, tournaments already make their own anyways. I'm far less optimistic that this will be a "free" FAQ update to folks with the existing rulebook, but I'd love to be proven wrong. I doubt the new rules will make me any less interested in 40k than I am now, so I'm fine with some changes Maybe it will be a step in the right direction and help fix some of the issues with the game as it stands now (fingers crossed!). Or, maybe it'll screw things up even more and drive home the need for the community to start fixing the game itself. Or, I guess they could just screw it up even more and the game flat out dies. But I certainly doubt, and would never wish for, that. In reality, it will probably be neither... do some cool/good things, some dumb/bad things, and the game will remain as lukewarm as it has been for the past few years. *shrug*
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Post by Tim on May 13, 2014 9:45:11 GMT -5
I'm excited for this. I know we just had a new edition 2 years ago, but new edition and new rules is simply exciting. Maybe they fix things, maybe they don't, but be the optimist and get ready for the fun of learning the game again.
I have two weeks off starting may 24th so I expect you all to be ready to play. I will host games at my house nearly any time and might even be able to get out of the house a bit here and there. I will be in Vermont until Tuesday the 27th, after that it's game on!
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 13, 2014 10:08:49 GMT -5
Maybe they fix things, maybe they don't, but be the optimist and get ready for the fun of learning the game again. +1
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Post by apothecarybob on May 13, 2014 10:14:47 GMT -5
I'm not going to hate on it until I get to see it myself. Like everyone is saying, there are some major updates, both good and bad, but overall the game will be changing for the better imo
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Sam
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Post by Sam on May 13, 2014 10:39:02 GMT -5
The scariest update is the psychic phase I have a feelings it's going to be a bit to powerful with certain armies. I think chaos players may love this edition too.
However the most hopeful thing I read in the white dwarf leaks is ""Veterans of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby will see that in this latest edition the rules have been gracefully messaged, with the feedback from thousands of games."
And the topics being addressed seem to indicate many changes are based on player feedback. However at the same time they opened up a whole new arena with the unbound lists that unless they restrict it in some way is going to be dreadful for a tournament setting. However it's not like we haven't had unit limits before and I can easily see TO just flat out stating no more then 4 of any unit selection.
Regardless I can't wait to play again.
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Post by aetios on May 13, 2014 12:19:25 GMT -5
I'm glad they're bringing the Psychic Phase back honestly. I psykers getting their own phase when I first started and hated when they dropped it. Between this and overwatch it's like they're finally listening to those that have been playing since 2nd/3rd edition and bringing back some of what made the game great from the start.
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Sam
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Post by Sam on May 14, 2014 6:40:41 GMT -5
Other 7th Edition Stuff Only a single grounding test per FMC per turn, regardless of number of hits inflicted!
You get Invulnerable saves versus Destroyer weapons (in most cases)
Wounds inflicted by the winner of a challenge now spill over into the enemy unit!
I like these changes
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Post by bob on May 14, 2014 19:16:40 GMT -5
I'm really embittered based on jaded expectations with how bad this stuff will turn out.
The Unbound rule is rumored to have some "requires opponent consent" ruling, and nobody wants to play against 20 riptides, so I doubt most will consent.
The psychic phase stuff seems so completely abuseable as to be laughable while heartbreaking at the same time.
I take 90 heralds. They summon more heralds. they summon troops and greater daemons. You cry.
How is the potential for this fun?
All that aside, I take my existing daemon army, and I have 20+ d6 warp charge.
Good luck stopping all my powers!
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Sam
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Post by Sam on May 14, 2014 20:56:29 GMT -5
I look at unbound and laugh it really is going to be as bad as people think. The examples they give are absurd, you can ally come the apocalypse as long as they are not within 12in of each other or who knows what happens lol. I truly believe like you no one is going to allow or play unbound outside shit and giggle games.
The psychic phase doesn't sound that bad it just sounds like fantasy magic hybrid. The Malefic summoning spells are all mastery 3, and a pain in the ass to cast. And you get perils on any double with demonic psychic rolls. There is still to much unknown about the psychic phase but I'm considering a heretic inqusitor I guess if psychic phase becomes really good I'll just use a heretic inqusitor instead of xenos inqusitor in my build lol.
On the flip side anyone know where I can fix my iPad mini screen ?
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Post by bob on May 15, 2014 13:47:26 GMT -5
brainstorming stuff a lot
all armies are apparently battle brothers with themselves (ie I can expand the FOC of my Daemon army by allying with Daemons)
then there's the #1 daemonology power that improves the invuln of all daemon units within 12", and it is explicitly stackable
so now i can bring 36 screamers and spam that #1 spell and have 4 whole screamerstars instead of just one! Weee!!!
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Post by Ben on May 16, 2014 15:39:15 GMT -5
I have two weeks off starting may 24th so I expect you all to be ready to play. I will host games at my house nearly any time and might even be able to get out of the house a bit here and there. I will be in Vermont until Tuesday the 27th, after that it's game on! I'm off as well so I'll probably be taking you up on that offer Tim. Probably the least excited I've ever been about a new rules edition. Really would have preferred a fantasy update to get more people back into it, plus I really don't want to drop $85 on the book itself. However not going to draw up conclusions about the rules themselves until I've seen them, and hey you never know..maybe GW really got it right this time and did enhance the game.
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Sam
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Post by Sam on May 16, 2014 15:59:13 GMT -5
I like the new rules and fixes the few issues people have are not even a problem, unless of course you are playing people that insist on making it a problem. Unbound is explicitly stated as must be agreed upon to play before you play. Its basically the same as apocolypse for lower points. Most people just wont agree to play it.
malefic demonollogy and summoning greater demons is not going to be easy as non chaos since you will be getting perils anytime you attempt to cast anything ml2 or higher.
I'm not to keen on the way they implemented mission cards, but i really love the idea and i would suggest playing them as such: Each player randomly selects 6 mission cards but keeps 3 and does not show the other players your mission. Each player discards thier mission cards once the condition is met. To me that sounds extremely fun and limits the useless cards people may draw and throughout the game you are trying to figure out what is your opponents missions are in the middle of the battle and preventing him from acheiving them. While at the same time trying to complete your own missions.
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Post by Dr Carnivean on May 17, 2014 11:13:44 GMT -5
Really wishing now I knew about a new edition a few weeks back when I ordered hundreds of dollars of 40k stuff with the all the OT I put in this past month :.( I'm not naysaying before seeing the product as much as projecting what the next point is going to be in the pattern that GW has followed in the last decade or so They're going to change core mechanics of the game without going in and overhauling existing codexes to bring them in alignment with those changes and once again the people who can theory hammer the most abusive list possible or those with the means to run out and buy whole new armies before the next tournament will benefit and everyone else gets hosed because the stuff they have now sucks, even if they bought and painted it within the last year, which even with GWs ridiculous new edition timetable (each previous AD&D edition was current for a decade or more) would have given an expected window of two more years before having to go back to the drawing board with the army Sorry to sound so negative but I'm just really feeling down about it all
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