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Post by sean on May 15, 2012 14:44:52 GMT -5
Drago already has signs and portents. So I factored it in that's why there is the big margin. Otherwise with 4 attacks at Pow 16 it's only 16 damage or 19 since one is boosted by the charge.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 15, 2012 15:24:20 GMT -5
Ah, gotcha. Well, Drago's affinity stacks with normal signs and portents so... He'll only get better with Vlad's signature buff up.
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Post by gretchinmike on May 16, 2012 20:38:48 GMT -5
So tom brought up a good idea for me... what If I begin to screen my army with some weaker units? The question though, is what should I use to screen? I can go with some winterguard, and make them a decent unit , with all the nice upgrades. That unit would be good at taking out some stuff, but expensive to block with. It is a great unit to use too, but does anyone have any better units to block with?
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Post by aetios on May 16, 2012 21:08:25 GMT -5
No no... not screen with weaker units per say, just with troops. And I only say to do so if it looks like you'll need to in order to give something one more turn to get where it needs to be. But you're not just screening to have them die (well, maybe you will occasionally sacrifice one or two models to set up a great counter charge), you're screening for field control. i.e, using a melee unit (kayazy, doom reavers, etc) to stop Bobby's Bane Thralls from wading in and eating a jack that's too slow to get out of the way.
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Post by gretchinmike on May 16, 2012 21:14:13 GMT -5
OK... well the problem is my troops are as slow as my jacks... So take KAyazis or doom reavers, because then it's easier to kill some things, Doom Reavers can kill plenty of them, while Kayazis can kill most infantry... MOAR EXPERIMENTING! If I run Doom Reavers though, it will result in lots of sacrafice though... unless I want to risk not killing all of a unit. I think I need to try this out now...
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on May 17, 2012 1:27:30 GMT -5
Bar Men of War, all of Khador's troops are faster than their jacks... The three "core" Khador infantry are winterguard, kayazy, and iron fang pikemen. WGI are extraordinarily versatile -- sprays, combined melee/ranged attacks, self buff for defense 14, and Kovnik Joe's speeches which make them tough/boost attack rolls/buff their melee... that's a powerhouse unit. Kayazy are the most self sufficient, don't need caster/solo support... They're stealth, defense 16 in combat, and gang gives them fearsome melee. IFP have lower defense, but better armor; and can threaten jacks with their spears of doom. I don't own them, but plan on getting a unit in the next few months.
Kayazy and winterguard are both phenomenal units on the battlefield, though they work differently... Still, Tom may be right in the fact that picking up some infantry will help afford you some more board control.
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Post by gretchinmike on May 20, 2012 15:25:44 GMT -5
Well... everything you said sums up my ideas on what to do for my 35 point list although I personally love IFP and I really want to try the Black Dragon upgrade thing Anyway I need my list for 35 and I'm not sure what to do, but I like my current list and want to build ontop of it so I'm not sure what list to pick Khador 25+5 points, 12 models Vladimir, The Dark Prince +5 points * Drago 8 points * Juggernaut 7 points * War Dog 1 point Great Bears of Gallowswood 5 points 5 Man-O-War Shocktroopers 9 points 10 iron fang pikeman 8 points IFP unit attachment 2 points This army is really tough, everything is hard to kill, and almost always my lowest armor will be about 17 (I think) It can put out a lot of hurt, and can kill some infantry, and I have no problem killing jacks at this point, infact I think I may have a little bit to much... Anyway this list is tough and the lowest P+S that should be getting into combat is 13, and with SandP that can hurt a lot... Khador 25+5 points, 12 models Vladimir, The Dark Prince +5 points * Drago 8 points * Juggernaut 7 points * War Dog 1 point Great Bears of Gallowswood 5 points 5 Man-O-War Shocktroopers 9 points 10 kayazy assaisins 8 points underboss 2 points This unit will destroy most infantry, but will have trouble with jacks, where the IFP can do a little bit of both. These guys though will be much harder to kill though, since shooting them is hard, and hitting them is usually worse in combat, so they can tie things up a while. although, they will have trouble killing jacks... Khador 25+5 points, 12 models Vladimir, The Dark Prince +5 points * Drago 8 points * Juggernaut 7 points * War Dog 1 point Great Bears of Gallowswood 5 points 5 Man-O-War Shocktroopers 9 points 10 winter guard infantry 6 points commander and banner 2 points commander joe 2 points Now this list has a lot of models in it, and can be a pain to kill... They can kill anything, but require dedication and can do a lot of damage, however I'm not sure if I would use these guys as much, since I love the IFP I will end up using the IFP the most probobly, but what one is more competitive? anyone have any ideas, since I'm not sure what to try out since everything has a similar role and they can all do it differently...
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Post by sionnach19 on May 21, 2012 0:02:13 GMT -5
Winterguard are the most versatile -- effective from range, but can do melee; can hurt any target, and have access to tough and good defense. They work best with an Iron Flesh caster, I'm not a big fan of them with Vlad.
Kayazy are the most self-sufficient, and can threaten jacks with the right buffs -- under Vlad's SandP, they're close to pow 14 which is pretty beefy (don't forget gang!). Def 16 in combat and stealth makes them hard to hit. I like them with pVlad. Models suck, though.
Iron Fang Pikemen are weird... I want to get the unit soon (a side note: you only need the Black Dragon shields on the UA, for the upgrade to benefit the entire unit... at least in a tournament. I don't need the whole upgrade pack, but I'd love to take two extra shields off your hands so I can swap out both UA's on my future-unit) myself. The higher armor is nice, but not super great for their defense -- only one higher than WGI base, and if you move in Shieldwall all the time you're super vulnerable to blast damage and effects like chain lightning, while being very slow. Armor is a weaker defense on one wound models, since anything on the charge gets boosted damage and most warnouns have high power weapons that don't give a crap about shieldwall. Reach is awesome, and they're stronger... but suffer from painfully low mat. They'll miss plenty of warbeasts and some Cryx warjacks on average dice, and will really struggle against any moderately defensive infantry. Even though I just pointed out some of their issues, I think they're a cool unit (and great models) -- Vlad buffs their accuracy and damage, which is pretty sweet.
For the lists that you're looking at, I think Kayazy are a good compliment. The MoW give you high armor, so the IFP aren't as necessary. Kayazy are hard to hit at range because of stealth, and in melee defense 16 is pretty damn high. Their high mat and pow thanks to gang makes them good at clearing infantry, and if you can get a charge on an enemy heavy they'll be in good shape to so some damage. But play with the models you want and guys you're interested in. What other casters are you looking to branch out into? That may impact what a good unit would be for you.
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Post by gretchinmike on May 21, 2012 6:31:51 GMT -5
I know I know, people already run these casters, but they were the ones recommended to me, and they both seem good. The caster I want to run are the Vlads, and the Butchers they both seem pretty good to me. I think that the Kayazi's will be the best, since they can take out what I have the most trouble with...
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Post by sionnach19 on May 21, 2012 13:11:06 GMT -5
Oh, so what I'm running? Nah, I'm only experimenting with them now... I'll probably keep playing eVlad (and the new Vlad when he comes out), but still not sure on pButcher. Though he's an awesome caster and a very good one to play, since he's so straightforward. Helps to learn all the other stuff. Play what you want to play, don't worry about other people I agree, Kayazy go very well with the Vlads and Butchers. Cheaper than a full unit of Iron Fang Pikemen too, which is a plus. Steve and Bobby won't be very happy when you introduce them into your meta
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Post by gretchinmike on May 21, 2012 20:20:08 GMT -5
Kayazies aren't more cheaper tan ironfang pikemen, or atleast not full units with upgrades. I do think the kayazies will scare them both, even Steve was frightened of the entire unit at such a great DEF. I think I'll go with ten for now, I'll let you know when I pick up the iron fang black dragon thing, I should be able to spare some shields. What is your opinion on karchev, is 3 jacks do able with him?
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Post by sionnach19 on May 21, 2012 22:40:13 GMT -5
A full unit of Iron Fang Pikemen with UA is $104, before the Black Dragon upgrade. A full unit of Kayazy with the Underboss is $58. I meant cash wise... that's the bottom dollar (no pun intended) for me most times haha. Thanks bud, the shields would be sweet. Figured it would be a nice way to split the cost of everything. Karchev can definitely run 3 'jacks, in fact he probably wants to. There are basically three popular ways to play him: A gunboat, where he tows Behemoth and some shooty jacks around while they fire away; an assassination caster where he uses tow, to launch a few solid melee jacks halfway across the board at the enemy caster; or in a brick where he uses Side Arms to boost the defense of all of his jacks as they lumber across the board, trying to be unkillable.
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Post by gretchinmike on May 22, 2012 5:57:18 GMT -5
YeA, the plan was to launch karchev and 2 kodiaks along with a juggernaught early in the game, although it will take to turn 3 to do it properly. Still that's a lot of jacks coming at you at once, and usually everything is boosted, and the model I'm taking in that army allows for 1 free upkeep... Still it will be hard to pull off but if used correctly I cam win early...
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Post by gretchinmike on May 23, 2012 6:30:51 GMT -5
So my first league game with the kayazy unit, I strongly dislike them now . They were absolutly destroyed by the 12 flameguard steve had, however they were able to distract him for a turn I think they'll be better againgst someone without 12 flameguard...
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Post by sionnach19 on May 23, 2012 11:23:00 GMT -5
Well, they're still infantry so still die to anti-infantry guns... they're good, not invincible Sprays, AoE's, and the like will kill them -- they have pitiful armor (sprays are bad because they ignore stealth/firing into melee penalties). You have to be able to space them out and place them so that Steve can't wipe out the whole unit with sprays.
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