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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 28, 2012 20:17:45 GMT -5
So we all know that I'm really new in the warmahordes world, and I know very little about the game I think t would be best to have others decide what list I should use for the league. I know that both of these lists have VERY few models in each, but all of th models are if elite stature for the most part. Now I know that this is only 15 points and all so there aren't many choices, but I can't decide between these. So here is the first list
Kommander Sorscha +5 points * 2x Juggernaut 7 points each
3 Man-O-War Shocktroopers 6 points
So with this for the most part I horde the focus on my jacks and get into combat with everything (but my caster) usually I can kill enough to get me into combat with someones vaster, but at that point I'm so damaged that they can kill me quickly. When that point comes I pop sorscha's feet to freeze everyone, so I can usually get more people in combat because they can't get free strikes if they are frozen. This list has enough big stuff and it uses my feet very well.
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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 28, 2012 20:26:26 GMT -5
Now hEre is my 2nd list
Vladimir, The Dark Prince +5 points * Spriggan 10 points * War Dog 1 point
5 Man-O-War Shocktroopers 9 points
Vlad is my favorite caster, so of course I would have to use him. This list let's te Spriggan have a threat range of a maximum of 21 inches during my feet turn. In addition to that, I can just bulldoze models out of my way. Sure I do t get to utilize my feet as well because I ing get to benefit 1 jack, but that double movement is key. I know that relying most of an army off of 1 jack is not the best idea, but the men of war can usually do some damage to most thugs and the wardog is there to do a point or so more and take hits. I think that if I fail with my Spriggan thoug then it's game, where as with the other list if a lot of my stuff died I could still use some odd tactics to kill them. Really this is only 15 points so it isn't to big of a decision but I can't decide between These. In addition to that I forgot to mention that te Spriggan can let me shoot things in stealth, and since Bobby mainly fields bane thrauls I can now kill a few before I have to charge them.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 28, 2012 21:52:56 GMT -5
Shocktroopers are hard to make work with Khador casters -- we have a hard time of making them work. But I know they come in the battlebox, and they're sweet. I think my list for next week will be messing around with them too. My suggestions for these two casters: pSorscha works well with a Destroyer. Many armies are vulnerable to her feat at that level, and autohitting boosted pow 14's are scary to most casters. If you could get two Destroyers in, that would be pretty scary. pVlad wants more jacks than Sorscha -- SandP, his feat, and a better focus stat makes him much more capable as a jack caster than Sorscha. Vlad, two juggernauts, and min Shocktroopers... Shocktroopers can screen Vlad, and Juggernauts have a healthy 11.5" threat on feat turn. Signs and Portents makes them pretty beefy and Vlad can still hand out some focus for them to buy more attacks. Those are the two lists I would consider, either Sorscha attrition or pVlad alpha strike. Fyi, Spriggans charge is only 15" max (4x2 + 3 +2 +2), speed doubled, 3" for charge, 2" for the boundless charge spell, and 2" for reach. His anti stealth is awesome, but it's worth noting that you don't have anything in your list that can really effectively shoot those Bane Thralls anyways if you're close enough to shoot, he's close enough to charge, and those thralls will scrap a heavy or MoW with ease. I like the Vlad list, based on the models I know you have. Vlad himself is a nightmare... he can solo 15 point armies by himself with Blood of Kings. Don't underestimate that!
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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 28, 2012 22:18:25 GMT -5
Whoops, thinking o the wrong caster when I mentioned the 21" charge, I know u can still bulldoze my way past some of the band Thespis and I've never had the chance to use blood of kings because stephen used some stupid menoth thing to remove it. I think I'll have to work with this for now but come the 25 I can start to afford enough jacks to make glad more efficient and have his feet work rather well. I notice what you mean by not having lots of shooting for the removal of stealth, so the Spriggan isn't needed yet. With that in mind, it may be more benafiial to run the 2 juggernaughts with vlad like you said. Come 25 I can start trying out some interesting things. I might try and go for 3 juggernaughts then, 5 shocktroopers, and a wardog, and vlad. Adding more troops that can protect vlad and I really don't mind poising if I need to, and 3 jacks that will let me partially overwhelm sone people. It's still only 10 models, but they all supply a punch. If I choose to go with something other than that then I might just go with Spriggan 5 men of war 2X beserkers That's still not a lot but then I can charge the beserkers in without needing to worry about poising them because I would use them as a suicide unit. Put 3 focus on them, use ghosts feet, charge into combat and buy as many attacks as I can and then more than likely blow up, if I don't blow up then it's a bonus. I think I have to playtest this before itchy using t competitively.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 29, 2012 0:47:38 GMT -5
Most interesting grammar Warmachine is a very different beast at 15 compared to 25 -- I wouldn't worry about it. And yeah, tricksy Menoth has lame spells that can screw with your stuff. 25 points, I like your first Vlad list... something to consider though, you look to be running a lot of warjacks. Khador isn't a big 'jack faction, and if you're building your army from the ground up planning purchases is important. Dropping cash on three juggernauts, or two berserkers, may not help in the long run. But buy what you want to buy, of course! Nobody should tell you how to play the game, and you should build the Khador army you want to run. I'll do my best to help you out with lists and strategy, being a fellow comrade If you're intent on running 'jack heavy, I'd look into some of Khador's "better" 'jack casters: Karchev and Harkevich are the best, but limited in what they can run. pButcher and pVlad can run a larger number of jacks pretty well, but are effective with other stuff too: pVlad is one of Khador's top tier casters (and probably the easiest to learn on), and Butcher can be up there as well -- though eSorscha brings a lot of the same stuff to the table, with more tricks. That versatility is nice. I think I'm going to try running pButcher as my backup caster for this league, in addition to eVlad.
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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 30, 2012 6:40:36 GMT -5
Stupid auto-correct I know from use, that most khador caster can support 2-3 Jacks, and that tends to be the limit. In addition to that, I know that an army won't be efficient if you have to many, because then you won't have the focus to trun them. I know I'm going to want some Doom Reavers (the people with the weapon master and go crazy when they kill something (I think that's their name)) Along with the character (Fenris I think) so then they don't always need to go crazy, so that makes them reliable. I think running pVlad 2X juggernaughts 5 Men-o-war Max unit of Doom Reavers, I'm not sure what the amount is offhand, but I think I can mostly afford them, along with the character. That supplies lots of mean close combat abilities, that If I need to i can let them go crazy in combat and might be able to do extra dammage, however I would end up loosing a few then. I think that with the thresher like ability, then I should be able to kill a few of those bane Thralls and jacks when the time comes.
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Post by hivemindbob on Apr 30, 2012 7:14:35 GMT -5
Let me be the first to say I love doom reavers, but first Fenris is a solo not an attachment as to be part of a "max unit" second, where I love the fenris model he basically offers the scilence ability so the reavers dont cut each other. Thye Greylord escort gives them a wider command, tough, scilence, and a fancy magical shotgun.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 30, 2012 9:47:53 GMT -5
Switching your caster to eVlad already? He's a bit trickier to use... I think running pVlad is smarter, he really is the best Khador caster to learn on in my opinion. Doom Reavers are awesome, I think they're a really solid investment... they only come in one unit size (of 6), with the option of a Greylord UA who Bobby detailed above. There's no right or wrong answer on him, though I generally find I'd rather spend my points else where. They're largely self-sufficient, which is a blessing and a curse... they cannot be target by awesome caster buff spells, like Hand of Fate or Fury or Iron Flesh (Vlad runs them well, as Signs and Portents doesn't target them but can still affect them). If you like Doom Reavers, check out eButcher's theme force. Fenris is a dragoon solo, with a hefty pricetag but he's really fast and really scary. I think he's cool, though have never used him myself (when it comes to Dragoons, I'm looking into the Drakhun... he has better synergy with eVlad at least). And the fact that Khador casters *can* support multiple warjacks doesn't mean that they *should*. Khador has probably the most effective and powerful infantry in the game, with phenomenal caster support. That's truly their "thing". Not that they'll do poorly with lots of jacks, simply that your points are better invested in infantry who can get more mileage out of spells and everything. Harkevitch, pButcher, pVlad, and Karchev are the "best" 'jack casters we have in faction... I'd recommend pButcher or pVlad, since they're versatile and can work well with other types of lists too. Of course, your mileage may vary
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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 30, 2012 13:40:13 GMT -5
Damn, meant pvlad, I hate evlad
I like the ability to do lots of work with magic attacls and I'm trying them out right now, I have looked at Butcher's theme list and thought it would be awesome, however I want to even see if I like them right now.. more to come after my test game with them
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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 30, 2012 17:49:13 GMT -5
OK, so I tried out a 15 point list with Stephen that I like A LOT, however it can't be used in the league because I have a character jack in it PVlad War Dog Great Bears Doom Reavers Drago I really like the war dog with any caster, it makes them really safe and able to finish off a jack every now and then. The Great Bears are absolutly amazing, sure they have low armor but they can tarpit a unit if needed to, and they can also destroy a jack with no problems. In addition to that, they have great abilities that let them take quite a few hits. The Doom Reavers I used terribly. First game I wasn't sure how to work them, charged them up and before they could hurt a thing they got melted, and then my defenses were WAY to open and Vlad got smooshed. That game was over to fast so we went into another game. I sent out the Doom Reavers to bait him, and then they ran off to the side. I ended up not wanting to loose them so all they killed was the choir and didn't do much more. I used the great bears, and had had 2 of them go after his flame thrower guys, killing 4 of them, and the leader (who ever the one is that gives them the special charge) attack a jack, and got 1 hit against it. Then some stupid magic ability went off so he got to punch me, I lived the punch and got my 2nd attack, almost killing it, where a flame thrower killed me. the other 2 soked up some dammage but died in the end. Drago has never failed me and he is my favorite character jack, but I can't use him in a league so I'm not sure what I'll do. I'm thinking that for the 25 list I can try Pvlad 5 Men-o-War shock troopers Juggernaught Destroyer Great Bears It has some decent combat ability, and it's able to take quite a few hits, and I can get my hands on all of that quicker than if I were to go with most other lists, but since I haven't bought much of anything yet, then I can still change my mind, I just wish I found the points for the War Dog. Also I know, 2 jacks is usually the magic number and even with that you want 1 that can be Very focus light 1 question though, am I aloud to cast boundless charge more than once a turn on the same model?
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Post by sean on Apr 30, 2012 18:03:57 GMT -5
dont worry mike.... in a few weeks you can use characters... or just get your opponents permission... you see the thing with in house for fun leagues is they dont need to be too rigid. Rules are more like guidelines.
For instance whitestar333 and I ended up playing kill box as our mission just to give a little structure to our game and discourage either of us from running away. Just make your list with the regular version of that character jack and pay the points cost of the character... then ask your opponent if they say no then you are forced to pay points down for your risk, if they say yes you are good. Thats how I see it. Rod could say Im wrong... but this isnt a tournament so to me its more laize fare.
If you play me you can use whatever you want mike. Im already using my cheaty character... thats cus shes my warcaster lol.
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Post by gretchinmike on Apr 30, 2012 19:39:00 GMT -5
Well I'm not worried about nedeing drago t win, I just like him in my list for some odd reason, I don't think I even used him to win my game. I'm not sure if we are required to stick with the same list or not, so I'm not sure if I should even bother trying new things in the league... I think I still have time to plot out what I want in a competititive list, and I have a good variety of oponents to test things with, so I think that I need to stick to what I know works for now, and experiment later. I still need to try and find a very solid jack that I like, since the Juggernaughts are getting a tad dull running them all.
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sionnach19
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Post by sionnach19 on Apr 30, 2012 21:20:37 GMT -5
I assumed kill box was standard, but that's more or less because a) I need to make it a habit of, you know, not voluntarily walking out of the zone, and b) so cheaty pansy warcasters can't run away for 15 turns camping focus The best way to learn Warmachine, Mikey, is stick with one thing and do it well. The same models, same caster, and just get into a rhythm of how to use them best. I think pVlad is an awesome choice for that, as you can run almost anything with him -- he makes everything better. Drago is a sweet character 'jack, and I go back and forth on whether I want him or Beast 09 (Vlad is my Khador love, if you haven't noticed -- I'm trying to get more eVlad under my belt, and am super psyched for the next tier cavalry Vlad too). He's focus light which is a blessing. Juggernauts are a bit dull... an awesome workhorse of a 'jack, but it's hard to make them shine. If you want to use Drago, just hold off until next week. Then character restrictions are lifted. I read this on one of the Privateer Press forums... but basically, if it comes down to taking any 5 points in the game, or Great Bears... choose Great Bears. They're amazing, as you've already discovered. And no Mikey, can't stack Boundless Charge on the same model. The same spell doesn't stack.
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Post by RodTheCid on Apr 30, 2012 22:26:30 GMT -5
Wow, I guess the league is bringing some interest back in WM/H; very happy about that.
Mike: you don’t have to build up on your previous list, however you still can’t have more than two casters for the whole league, that it self restricts your options at least a little.
Sean is somewhat right about the rules, they are basically there to standardized the games and give some order to the competition and although I would rather for everybody to follow them just for the sake of fairness, there are little things (like proxies) that experienced players may agree to use in their games as long as this is not giving them an advantage over the rest of the participants
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Post by gretchinmike on May 1, 2012 6:43:04 GMT -5
For the league I'm going to stick to the rules, since if I were to go to a tournament, I have to deal with their restricitons. I've been using the men of war in every game I've played, along with juggernaughts. Both of them are great units/jacks and also able to withstand some damage, but I know that I need to try some new things now and then, and I'm pretty sure that I have most of the basic rules down and that the only way that I'll come across new rules to try and compprehend are if I try different units with different rules. I dislike eVlad, becasue I find that his feet isn't going to be the most needed, except if I'm doing an asasination, but often I end up doing my assasination with my caster... not the best idea I know, but it's usually easier for me to get my caster in.
the main reason that I'm building up ontop of my old list is becasue it's what I have right now, and if I want the motivation to paint, then I need to have it in my list.
Also I remembered that the only reason that I stacked the boundless charge was becasue I was charging drago through terrain, and needed the extra 4 inches to go through the terrain, but I forgot that he got pathfinder for it... Oh well, his caster could have just been double dead instead .
Right now, I'm looking into the character mercenary unit Alexia Ciannor & The Risen, anyone have any thoughts or experience with them? They seem interesting enough, and it seems like they run like a mini warcaster.
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